PU covers 1B

[jpperez14]

Hey guys, 

Was talking to a guy the other day before a game and he mentions to me (i am BU) that on any base hit to the outfield he would come up and cover 1b, if the defense attempts to back door the BR. We never had any play happen at first, but I would notice him coming up the 1b line then move to foul territory about 15 ft from 1B.

 

I could see how this would make sense, but I've never seen a play at first as a backdoor attempt. 

 

Thoughts? 

[VAUmp]

Sounds like a guy making up his own mechanics.

[Richvee]

Sounds like he's got a few things mixed up. In 2 man, if BU goes out from "A", PU has BR all the way around the bases..That would include a play back into 1st. Similarly, in 3 man, no one one, if U1 goes out, PU has BR touching 1st and any play back into the bag.

If BU does not go out, PU has nothing to do with 1st base. 

[ElkOil]

When you say "backdoor attempt" do you mean a 9-3 putout?  If that's the case, and as BU you go out, yeah, that's his responsibility in a 2-man crew.  But the mechanic I prefer is from A, I'll always come in and leave the call to PU, as long you agree to it in a pre-game (and most of partners like it that way).  You might as well do it since PU has all of left field all the time, anyway, so it's more consistent and assures BU is always covering the bases and will be in a good position for the 9-3 attempt.

[KenBAZ]

In most baseball contexts a backdoor attempt on the BR at first would be a relay throw to 1st behind a BR that has rounded too far. Not sure if that is what the OP's partner meant, however that play belongs to the BU unless he's gone out from A on a trouble ball. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

I agree with the previous answers, but I also agree (in a general sense) with the movement of the PU in the OP (but 15' from first is too close).  PU has nothing else to do, and if there is a run-down (not a simple back door play) or an overthrow, he might as well be moving to be in a position for that.

Edited August 23, 2015 by noumpere

[Old Skool]

The backdoor plays at 1st mentioned in OP most likely was referring to when the catcher backdoors in behind the BR as he makes an aggressive or big turn around 1st following his base hit.  We have several teams in our area that have their catchers trail up the line & swing into base from foul territory.  Have seen runner thrown at like this plenty but never with PU covering.  

[Fittske24]

This is always the BU's play back into first (in a 2-man system). BU should be reading the BR as well as having an understanding where the fielders and the ball is. If the BR makes a hard turn, the BU should be prepared to take the BR into 2nd. If the BR slams on breaks and there is a play back into 1st, the BU should drop step back in the direction of 1st and stop in the cut out for the play. This type of play is exactly why we don't  "stare down" batter runner touches of first. If the BU is simply looking for the touch and only watching the runner, the BU may miss the backdoor play.

[jpperez14]

say a ball hit to center field, BR rounds wide, F8 throws to F3 covering 1B. Instead of me having to move back in forth between 1st and 2nd, he could follow BR to 1st and be able to be right on top of the play. It seemed to make sense in theory, but I've never done it or seen a play come back to first to be bang bang. 

[jpperez14]

Orange - BR 

Red - U1

Blue - PU

 

Please be nice, I did this on my phone in hopes of better explaining.

[grayhawk]

You have 1 runner in this situation.  Why would a BU need any help?

[maven]

Sounds like a busybody PU.

[jpperez14]

You have 1 runner in this situation.  Why would a BU need any help?

I have no idea, he just suggested it, he's much more experienced than me so I just went with it. Never heard anyone else mention it so I was just curious what everyone thought. 

[Kevin_K]

Sounds like any BU who knows what he is doing will end up with two umpires making a call on a potential play @ 1B. Hope they have the same call.

[James88]

I will say that may be a pretty good mechanic in a softball game on a sort field (Yes I know this isn't softball!!!).  

I've only been umpiring softball for a couple years total, but this scenario has happened to me on 3-4 occasions.  Batter hits a sharp single to right field, I'm coming in to pivot, right fielder fields ball quickly and makes a rocket throw to first.  If you're not prepared for that possibility you can be so focused on getting to the infield and pivoting you forget there could be a force play at first and aren't paying attention.

On a 90' diamond this generally isn't a problem but it could be.

[ElkOil]

I have no idea, he just suggested it, he's much more experienced than me so I just went with it. Never heard anyone else mention it so I was just curious what everyone thought. 

Unless you relinquish the bases to the PU by going out on a trouble ball, that runner is your responsibility.  I don't understand why he'd want to do it the way you described.

[jpperez14]

Sounds like any BU who knows what he is doing will end up with two umpires making a call on a potential play @ 1B. Hope they have the same call.

unless the BU and PU both know why PU is up there. He informed me when he would come up and have the backdoor at first, so I had in my mind that if the play was to happen he was going to be there.  It's all about communication. It could be a problem if he never told me in pregame and then we both make a call.

[KenBAZ]

The 9-3 is different than what the OP is describing. Even then it should be BU's call all the way. PU has dead ball responsibility on ball thrown back to 1B. Also he can help with OBS/INT and watch for the tag of first. No need to get too close or involved in any of plays back to 1B. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

say a ball hit to center field, BR rounds wide, F8 throws to F3 covering 1B. Instead of me having to move back in forth between 1st and 2nd, he could follow BR to 1st and be able to be right on top of the play. It seemed to make sense in theory, but I've never done it or seen a play come back to first to be bang bang. 

It makes sense IF BU is so out of touch with the game or so physically challenged that he can't make it back toward first.  In either of those cases, BU should just get off the game entirely.

 

BU's normal move should be a few drop steps toward first (well, toward the foul line) when he sees the ball fielded cleanly and BR NOT trying for second.

 

IF it develops into a rundown, then PU can be there.  Otherwise, there's no "back in (sic) forth."

[MadMax]

Sounds like any BU who knows what he is doing will end up with two umpires making a call on a potential play @ 1B. Hope they have the same call.

Any BU like this won't let it get that far. He will "smell the stink" in the pre-game and end this PU's "delusions of grandeur" right where he stands. AS @maven noted... this PU reads like a busybody. No slight to @jpperez14, but this guy is making pre-game way too complicated, and is likely used to working solo+1. Was he assigned PU or did he kinda, well, "insist" (or assume) on being PU, JP? Any time he gets with a "less experienced" partner, he breaks into "Puppeteer Mode".

Yeah, we have a few of those around here. 

[UmpJeff]

BU's call all day, every day.

[DVA7130]

This only make sense in a rundown.

[Sut'n Blue]

Sounds like the PU in the OP got burned on a 9-3 or maybe an 8-3 once upon a time when he was BU and came up with his own mechanic.

In all fairness these can sneak up on you. I'll admit to having to slam on the brakes when I was about to pivot a few times in order to get set for an  unexpected throw from the outfield to F3.