Balk!

[Gfoley4]

Joe Maddon was just ejected after his F1 threw to F3 as he was retreating back to the back (he was playing in for the bunt) and a balk was called. Will update with video when it's up.

[zm1283]

Saw this too. At first I thought it was nitpicking. The more I think about it the more I think it was right. I only saw the replay once, but it looked like Rizzo only went toward the base because the pitcher threw it there. I will be interested to see the video too. 

[Lindsay]

Waiting for the video, but was it anything like this 2008 balk? http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=3287297

[Gfoley4]

Waiting for the video, but was it anything like this 2008 balk? http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=3287297

yes, but F3 was only at about the cutout and trying to head back to the bag

[Thunderheads]

[zoops]

Probably nitpicking in my world but maybe not in MLB...what's the standard for this play?

Announcers...

[noumpere]

Rizzo is still moving forward as the pitcher turns to throw and maybe even while the ball is in the air.

 

OTOH, I think you could judge that the throw was to the base and not to the player, so it would still be legal.  Maybe the umpire got so caught up in the movement part of the play that he forgot this part.

Edited July 22, 2015 by noumpere

[BRUMP]

this one always trips me up...can someone break it down for me?

[noumpere]

this one always trips me up...can someone break it down for me?

You can throw to F4 / F6 away from the base, but you can't throw to F3 away from the base, unless he's braking back to make a play (In FED, it's "within the proximity to make a play, or some such wording).  You can always throw to the base, even if the fielder isn't there.

[LMSANS]

It looked to me that the throw was towards the base.  I think if F3 was in a normal "Holding the runner" position, he would have had to reach for that, but could do so without moving...maybe.  U1 had the best angle and it's a finer ruler than I use.

[maven]

Throw was to the base: F3 had to move back toward 1B to field the throw.

[Nafxos]

I don't see a balk there.  Just a throw to an occupied base with F3 playing in.  If it's not illegal to throw it to the base when F3 is playing in his normal position (e.g., the wild throw the other day), why would this be illegal?

[grayhawk]

Rizzo is still moving forward as the pitcher turns to throw and maybe even while the ball is in the air.

 

OTOH, I think you could judge that the throw was to the base and not to the player, so it would still be legal.  Maybe the umpire got so caught up in the movement part of the play that he forgot this part.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Richvee]

I agree with the balk call. Rizzo catches the ball near the cutout and near the line. U1 has the best angle to if that throw was in line to 1B. To me it  doesn't look like a throw to the bag, rather a throw to Rizzo down the line near the cutout.

[VAUmp]

What a terrible call!  Just terrible. 

And that dude needs to button up his damn shirt!  He looks like a slob.  I don't know what umpires aren't required to button their shirts.  

[umpstu]

I don't button my shirt.  It's too hot to wear your shirt buttoned up.

[Lindsay]

Here's the regulation:

The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base. However, there is no violation if the pitcher throws the ball directly to first base in this situation. Also note that there is no violation if the pitcher attempts a pickoff at second and throws to an infielder who is in front of or behind that base base (i.e., this violation is only in reference to pick-offs at first and third base).

So let's see what we have...

1) Is F3 obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base? I agree he is not.
2) Does F1 throw the ball directly to first base? TV Broadcast provides a difficult angle with which to answer this question. Thus, I must defer to U1's judgment, we're inconclusive (a "call stands" situation).

The way the MLBUM interp reads, one could even conclude that if F3 isn't making an attempt to retire the runner, F1's throw must be of quality to first base in a similar vein as we've seen quality throw defined elsewhere for RLI purposes, e.g.

[BillKen]

Had a conversation a couple of weeks ago with a current MLB veteran umpire and he told me that Adam Hamari is probably the next AAA call up guy to get a full-time job.  Adam completely knows his stuff.  I'm fairly certain that he has been a pro school instructor and he didn't hesitate on this in any way.  I guarantee you he knows this rule and there was no doubt in his mind this was a balk.  I'll grant that it is a pretty narrow line...but this is the big leagues and he's making about $800 a game!  I'm working tonight for $90...so I'll defer to him!

[DVA7130]

I'm so tired of this announcer bs notion that young or recent call up umpires must, "Prove themselves by making big calls on purpose"... Even worse is the, "They are quick to eject because they know they are wrong". No, he was training for that call for a large portion of his life, and he has to eject more managers until those that push him harder understand that he won't be pushed around.

[renegadewolf]

It may be nitpicking, and I might not call it in a game I am calling, but this is the big leagues and they call stuff to the letter and are paid quite well to do so.  We've all seen a major league umpire call a balk on the tiniest of flinches that we wouldn't call in the vast majority (or even any) of the games that we as amateurs call.  I think it was a good call, and I think Maddon was only doing what he does best, namely getting tossed out of a game for arguing a judgement call. 

45

[mrumpiresir]

It appears the cub announcers are  following in the footsteps of the idiot Hawk Harrelson, berating the umpires for a correct call that goes against your team.

[MObetterBlue]

What about 3B?  The situation I'm referring to would be, R1 and R3.  I've seen some teams throw to F5 but he's walking off the base preparing for a throw to 2B in case R1 is stealing.

[grayhawk]

What about 3B?  The situation I'm referring to would be, R1 and R3.  I've seen some teams throw to F5 but he's walking off the base preparing for a throw to 2B in case R1 is stealing.

It's the same for third base in MLB rules.  In Fed and NCAA, since they can still feint to third, they can throw to F5 off the base and it's legal.  This would be a balk in MLB.

[maven]

What about 3B?  The situation I'm referring to would be, R1 and R3.  I've seen some teams throw to F5 but he's walking off the base preparing for a throw to 2B in case R1 is stealing.

In pro ball, this is now a balk for feinting a throw to 3B. 3B is the new 1B.

In other OBR-based leagues, it depends on whether they adopted the recent pro rule change prohibiting feinting a throw to 3B.

[MObetterBlue]

Sorry, I should have clarified the rule set.  USSSA tournaments so OBR based.

I described the situation to one of our trainers and he said that, although it's probably the correct call - Balk, it may be grabbing the dirty end of the stick.