Where is the Plate?

[LRZ]

Fields around here are not in great shape, and many are virtual dust bowls around the plate and bases. Here's the hypothetical: a runner slides home on a base hit, completely covering the plate with dirt. A following runner also slides into home, as the catcher applies the tag, a bang-bang play. Tag first, or touch of home first, when the plate is completely obscured? How would you handle this situation? I know that the plate is one of four points, marked by the actual rubber plate, but what would you do on a close play if you cannot discern where that point (or actual plate) is?

This almost happened in a game last week, although the throw got away from the catcher and the runner slid over the plate without being tagged, but the dirt was so thick that I had trouble locating the plate to brush it off. Got me thinking, so I'm curious about how others would handle such a situation.

Edited July 20, 2015 by LRZ

[grayhawk]

Sometimes, you just have to umpire.  What choice do you have?  It's not like you can wait until the tag has been made and ask the players to hold their positions until you can find the plate.

[UmpJeff]

That gives a whole new meaning to the neighborhood play.  

Sometimes, you just have to umpire.  

THIS^^^

[JaxRolo]

If the catcher is waiting with the ball to apply tag call the out.

If the fielder slides in then tag applied call safe.

Judgement.

[noumpere]

Sometimes, you just have to umpire.  What choice do you have?  It's not like you can wait until the tag has been made and ask the players to hold their positions until you can find the plate.

Well, he could have stopped time, cleaned off the plate, and then resumed time.

 

I mean, I've seen it happen in the movies and the cartoons, and I know *I* have that power, so I assume all of you do, too.

[ElkOil]

This happened to me this past Saturday.  Wild pitch with R3.  Runner comes home, pitcher is covering and places his foot on the edge of the plate.  As the runner slides, he plows up a wave of dirt that completely obscures the plate prior to his arrival.  His feet contact the pitcher's foot, then the tag is applied.  I called out.  He and his team hit the roof.  If I watched it a hundred times in slow motion, I'd still have no better of an idea whether he contacted the plate or not.  I could only make a decision based on what I saw at that moment.

[umpstu]

Well, he could have stopped time, cleaned off the plate, and then resumed time.

 

I mean, I've seen it happen in the movies and the cartoons, and I know *I* have that power, so I assume all of you do, too.

Yea, he could be the ACME umpire and keeping an eye out for the anvil falling out of the sky.  Beep, beep.

[maven]

Don't you know where the plate is? And: if you can't see it, who's going to argue that you missed it?

[BillKen]

It depends...is the game tied in the late innings?  Safe!

Has the OC been a jerk all day about your zone?  Out!

Do you need an out?  Out!

Are you one run away from a run rule?  Safe!

I'm using a bit of humor...but in all honesty, you get to decide on a play like this.  You just explained that there was a cloud of dust and there is no real way of knowing if a fingertip got on the plate, or if he missed it by a couple of inches.  Therefore, you make the call that best fits the situation.  If it was a heads up defensive play, reward that with an out call.  If it was great hustle by the offense, you can reward that with a safe call.  In the end, you don't get a do-over or an HD instant replay.  So umpire the play/game and stand out there boldly.  That's what they are paying you for.  If they want better field maintenance, that isn't your fight.

[catsbackr]

How did the plate get so covered with dust in the short time the play happened?  Sounds like you may need to clean the plate more often.  

[BRUMP]

How did the plate get so covered with dust in the short time the play happened?  Sounds like you may need to clean the plate more often.

some of the fields in the summer can be a sandbox

[LRZ]

The home plate area was a dirt pit. When the first runner slid, he covered the plate with an inch of dirt, not dust or a cloud of dust. Really, about an inch. I had to root around with my shoe to find and uncover the plate after the play was over, as it was late in the game.

I know about "just umpiring," "grabbing an out" and "rewarding the good play"; I would not be worried about coaches disputing my judgment; I'm fastidious and clean the plate frequently; I was positing a scenario where both offense and defense hustled. As I wrote, it did not matter in my game, but I just wondered what principles others would use to rule if such a situation were to occur. Everything else being equal, Rolo's reply makes sense to me.

[noumpere]

 Rolo's reply makes sense to me.

Proof that there's a first time for everything. 

[ZebraStripes]

How did the plate get so covered with dust in the short time the play happened?  Sounds like you may need to clean the plate more often.  

You've never had multiple runners slide into home on the same play?

[alan2703]

Must be some of the fields I work on, plate could be cleaned after every batter and it still is covered in dirt. Slide home can not find the plate because the player before buried it, you know where plate is or in this case it  should be. Just call what you see to the best of your ability what are they going to do complain they cannot see the plate either.

[catsbackr]

No sir, I never have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZebraStripes]

There are some fields around here that have way too much dirt around the plate.  A batter coming to the batter's box will knock a ton of dirt on there just be walking up.  On this type of field I have started sweeping the plate and then taking my foot and pushing dirt out of the area in hopes that it doesn't end up on home plate during the next batter. 

 

I have seen the multiple slide issue mostly at the younger rec level where the coaches have taught them to slide no matter what.  I had a gapper with 3 kids sliding into home. 

[kylehutson]

I have seen the multiple slide issue mostly at the younger rec level where the coaches have taught them to slide no matter what.  I had a gapper with 3 kids sliding into home. 

I have, too.

When possible, I like to swipe my foot across the plate after each just to get a rough idea of where the plate is. Obviously I can't do that every time.

[RingEmUp]

I had this very situation last year, ball beat the runner so I got an out and probably could have got an EJ (which came later in the game anyway after calling a balk because the catcher set up outside of the left-handed batters box).

[Rich Ives]

. 

 

I have seen the multiple slide issue mostly at the younger rec level where the coaches have taught them to slide no matter what. 

Probably because they've had runners called out for not sliding.  

[RingEmUp]

Probably because they've had runners called out for not sliding.  

I had a coach tell me he wanted me to call his players out if they didn't slide and politely said that's not going to happen.

[grayhawk]

I had this very situation last year, ball beat the runner so I got an out and probably could have got an EJ (which came later in the game anyway after calling a balk because the catcher set up outside of the left-handed batters box).

Was it on an intentional walk?  If not, leave this one alone.

[RingEmUp]

Was it on an intentional walk?  If not, leave this one alone.

Not an intentional walk but I did warn the coach and catcher to move back in.  At some point the catcher needs to be in the vicinity of home plate at the time of delivery. I consider outside the batters box to not be in the vicinity.  The HC was a true rat that complained over every call that didn't go his way and I was well past being nice at this point. 

[grayhawk]

Not an intentional walk but I did warn the coach and catcher to move back in.  At some point the catcher needs to be in the vicinity of home plate at the time of delivery. I consider outside the batters box to not be in the vicinity.  The HC was a true rat that complained over every call that didn't go his way and I was well past being nice at this point. 

Fed game or OBR?

[RingEmUp]

Fed game or OBR?

It was AAU under FED rules.