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ricka56

Blood boiling ... and it's prevention

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Though I saw the following happen in a WS game, I was not prepared for it when it happened in my game.

 

Last home HS varsity game of the year (senior night). Players escorting parents onto the field, greeted by the HC and presented with a commemorative gift...a very festive occasion. Then plate meeting as usual (nothing said about what was about to occur). Player introductions (VT line-ups on their foul line, starting defensive players sprint to their positions, remaining players line up on their foul line), followed by the national anthem.

 

This is where I usually introduce myself to F2, watch a few warm-up pitches, briefly talk to F2 before the game is started. But I couldn't do that. Both teams decided that they were going to play national anthem chicken, stand at attention and not leave the field. I didn't think that varsity F1 throwing warm-ups at 85+ mph between the 2 lines of players was a good idea, so in my best authoritative voice and called for all to get off the field. They must have felt safety in numbers and didn't budge. Again with a louder voice I told them to "GET OFF THE FIELD", again, no response. My blood started to boil...I am not used to having my umpire directives blatantly ignored like this. I considered starting to chuck players, but I remembered that this was senior night and I didn't want to start the game with a dozen ejections. But I felt like I was losing control of the game before it even started. So started walking up the VT side foul line saying "GET THE ______ OFF THE FIELD (it took all of my strength not to fill in that blank with an F-bomb), but they all moved out of my way as I went down the line. Once all the visitors were moved, the HT considered it a win, and left the field victorious.   

 

I've thought about it some since and would act differently if I had it all to do over again. But before I say what I think I should have done, I'll give the U-E forum the opportunity to play Monday morning QB. How do you think I should have handled this.   

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Advise the managers that the stand-off is over.

Warn them that they could be the first to be ejected - mockery of the game kind of stuff, you already brought up the safety issue. This is the same thing that happened at colleges last year.

Too much you tube for these kids

Edited by maineump
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This started in the pro's, then went to college.  This is EXTREMELY disrespectful.  

One umpire to each manager/head coach, "Get them in the dugout NOW or we'll start ejecting NOW!"

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Advise the managers that the stand-off is over.

Warn them that they could be the first to be ejected - mockery of the game kind of stuff, you already brought up the safety issue. This is the same thing that happened at colleges last year.

Too much you tube for these kids

​That's the solution.  Put the manager's head on the chopping block, and there will be results.

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​That's the solution.  Put the manager's head on the chopping block, and there will be results.

​Correct. I've had this happen to me twice and we were able to immediately chase them away from the line right after the anthem as we were very aggressive with them and both teams coaches were still on the line.

If they fail to obey like others have stated, put it on the HC and if he fails to resolve it immediately give him the hook. What a great way to start a game!

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I agree: hold the head coaches responsible. Warn, restrict, eject.

I'm concerned about the thread title: "blood boiling?" As hard as it might be, we should try to avoid taking anything on the field personally and getting angry. Once the adrenaline and cortisol start filling the veins, our reasoning is compromised and we tend to get into fight/flight mentality. As we all know, that mindset does not promote judicious and impartial officiating!

So take a deep breath (or 5), focus on the goal (getting back to the game), and stay cool. Take care of business, properly and respectfully, and relax.

Sure the "anthem standoff" is disrespectful, but they're kids, and I agree with the "too much YouTube" diagnosis. Get the head coaches wrangling them, and get on with the game. Problem solved! :)

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So is the umpire supposed to bounce from one dugout to the other explaining the problem, issuing warnings and restrictions (I am not hollering them across the field) while the crowd is abuzz, wondering what's going to happen next? I think that'll look like PU is loosing control. And if the HC's don't immediately comply, then PU must follow-through and EJ them. I don't want be the guy that has to write those EJ reports, nor do I want some to try to define me as the guy who EJ 2 HC's for this tom-foolery. Next time, this is what I plan to do.

 

I will simply take the game ball from the battery and advise F2 to go to the mound with F1. And then I would stand there at HP. HCs are either going to get their players off the field or want to know why I'm not taking action. HTHC will probably be the first to be concerned since it is his F1 who's routine is being impacted. If either HC tries to holler at me from the dugout, I will beckon them to come out and discuss. I will explain that this is their problem, not mine, I can wait for their pre-game festivities to conclude. I'm not allowing any more warm-up pitches and the game doesn't start until this horse$#!+ ends.

 

No heavy-handed EJ threats (and follow-throughs), no heavy-handed forcing one side to acquiesce, no demanding the players to "get off the field", no blatant disregard of the umpire's directives and most importantly, no umpire blood boiling. I will simply allow the HCs to resolve it as they see fit. They have a vested interest in getting the game going...I doubt it would take long.

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I would think Varsity would be a 2 man crew at least in Orange County (So Cal). You take this dugout and I'll take that dugout. Coach get your players off the field now, this is your sportsmanship warning and proceed from there.

Maybe they can have a stare off after the game?

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Had this happen to me this year...and I'm chasing the VT all state catcher off the line...a kid that I've worked with for 3 years and have a solid working relationship with.  Told him to go to the dugout one calmly...then raised my voice and aggressively went into his personal space and he moved!  When he came out to catch in the bottom of the 1st, I said, "You know I'm not mad at you...I just have to end that crap."  He grinned and said, "I know blue...its all good."  We had a great game!

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The NCAA was really serious about this before the season started. I fully agree with the guys saying warn the coach/manager, then start dumping guys. Just start with the coach, then guys standing closest to the plate. The other players, if they have half a brain, will dart to the dugout to save their own butts and remain in the game. I disagree with the guy who would do virtually nothing. It's disrespectful to the country considering it's immediately after the anthem. It's also unsportsmanlike. 

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The NFHS book does not address this situation, but I have been advised to handle it much like the NCAA has established. Issue a warning to the HC of the offending team, give him a few seconds to tell his guys that they better get going, and if they don't the HC and 1 offending player are ejected, if that doesn't get the point across, you eject the next player in line. 

I've had the start of it happen a couple of times, and my partner and I will step toward each team and tell them "Let's go" and it normally gets the point across.

I've tried to find the video of Paronto talking about it at the Phoenix Regional meeting that went on facebook right afterward, but I can't find it. It is a disgrace and absolutely disrespectful, so I understand the blood boiling part, but it is a serious issue that should be addressed as soon as it starts.

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I'm shocked coaches don't step down on that hard the moment they see it and before the umpires have to step in. Shows disrespect for not only our nation's anthem, but the game itself. 

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I agree with Tksjewelry. The coaches not taking charge shows a lack of respect for the game, the anthem, the umpires, and each other. If coaches stepped up and did their jobs, this kind of crap would cease.

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I agree with Tksjewelry. The coaches not taking charge shows a lack of respect for the game, the anthem, the umpires, and each other. If coaches stepped up and did their jobs, this kind of crap would cease.

​Truer words have never been spoken!

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So is the umpire supposed to bounce from one dugout to the other explaining the problem, issuing warnings and restrictions (I am not hollering them across the field) while the crowd is abuzz, wondering what's going to happen next? I think that'll look like PU is loosing control. And if the HC's don't immediately comply, then PU must follow-through and EJ them. I don't want be the guy that has to write those EJ reports, nor do I want some to try to define me as the guy who EJ 2 HC's for this tom-foolery. Next time, this is what I plan to do.

 

I will simply take the game ball from the battery and advise F2 to go to the mound with F1. And then I would stand there at HP. HCs are either going to get their players off the field or want to know why I'm not taking action. HTHC will probably be the first to be concerned since it is his F1 who's routine is being impacted. If either HC tries to holler at me from the dugout, I will beckon them to come out and discuss. I will explain that this is their problem, not mine, I can wait for their pre-game festivities to conclude. I'm not allowing any more warm-up pitches and the game doesn't start until this horse$#!+ ends.

 

No heavy-handed EJ threats (and follow-throughs), no heavy-handed forcing one side to acquiesce, no demanding the players to "get off the field", no blatant disregard of the umpire's directives and most importantly, no umpire blood boiling. I will simply allow the HCs to resolve it as they see fit. They have a vested interest in getting the game going...I doubt it would take long.

​Why not? Step out and tell the HC (Or both if that is the case) that they need to get their players in the dugout or he is going to be ejected along with all offending players. I haven't had to do that this year though. Usually if any players linger after the anthem is over, a "Come on guys, lets go" with a hand wave will get them going back to the dugout. 

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​Why not? Step out and tell the HC (Or both if that is the case) that they need to get their players in the dugout or he is going to be ejected along with all offending players. I haven't had to do that this year though. Usually if any players linger after the anthem is over, a "Come on guys, lets go" with a hand wave will get them going back to the dugout. 

​Step out where ? Tell the HC how ? Are you suggesting that I go from one dugout to the other issuing warnings or that I should be hollering at them from HP ? PU looks like a fool either way.

Warm them both and then EJ them both (cause you have to follow through) ? Why go OOO for this dumbassery ? You'd be the laughing stock of your asso.

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Here is the NCAA video from you tube. About 7:25 in is where they talk about the National Anthem standoff..

 

 

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You could go to drastic measures by telling the coaches you have one minute or what ever ,then you are leaving.No umps,no game.Do not put up with this folishness

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After I take the game ball away from the battery and kick F2 out of the HP cutout, I'd be trying to make eye contact with the HCs. If I could beckon the two HC out to me (I'm not bouncing from one dugout to the other while these juvenile delinquents try to turn this into a circus), I would tell them this is a YOU two problem, not a ME problem. Do you guys want to play national anthem standoff or baseball? Their reply would dictate what I do next. The expected response would be both coaches end that game in favor of baseball (give them two a few seconds to figure out their plan of attack). Any other (DB) response would result in EJ warnings which I would now not have any problem following through with.

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@ricka56 You're being too nice to these guys.

Warning and EJs are the way to go but I'm not sure I wouldn't just EJ the HCs for not nipping it in the bud as soon as it happens.  You will not be allowed to make a mockery of the game and the anthem on my field.

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Follow the college rule - it has been tested/works and gives you something to use as a tool. It isn't covered in other rulebooks, therefore you can use 9.01 and go by this ruling.

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So is the umpire supposed to bounce from one dugout to the other explaining the problem, issuing warnings and restrictions (I am not hollering them across the field) while the crowd is abuzz, wondering what's going to happen next? I think that'll look like PU is loosing control. And if the HC's don't immediately comply, then PU must follow-through and EJ them. I don't want be the guy that has to write those EJ reports, nor do I want some to try to define me as the guy who EJ 2 HC's for this tom-foolery. Next time, this is what I plan to do.

 

I will simply take the game ball from the battery and advise F2 to go to the mound with F1. And then I would stand there at HP. HCs are either going to get their players off the field or want to know why I'm not taking action. HTHC will probably be the first to be concerned since it is his F1 who's routine is being impacted. If either HC tries to holler at me from the dugout, I will beckon them to come out and discuss. I will explain that this is their problem, not mine, I can wait for their pre-game festivities to conclude. I'm not allowing any more warm-up pitches and the game doesn't start until this horse$#!+ ends.

 

No heavy-handed EJ threats (and follow-throughs), no heavy-handed forcing one side to acquiesce, no demanding the players to "get off the field", no blatant disregard of the umpire's directives and most importantly, no umpire blood boiling. I will simply allow the HCs to resolve it as they see fit. They have a vested interest in getting the game going...I doubt it would take long.

​This is why you have a PARTNER.

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You guys are either gonna love this or crucify me for it.

First, I am a licensed, but not in active practice, attorney so, unless you have my level of cavalier attitude towards lawyers and insurance companies I don't recommend you try this yourselves.....

last summer, Great Plains League (college wood  bat) game. Both teams try the standoff. Coaches aren't like real college coaches-just guys who coach and probably played in college, maybe some pro-but not professional coaches. I warn. Two guys, one each team stay on foul line through warmup pitches. I start the game. Second pitch- Foul ball down 1B line, that guy moves although it's not close to him. Pitch or two later batter RIPS a smokin hot laser-shot piss-rod down 3B line whizzing by idiot still on that line. He jumps back. Ball is foul. I then inform both coaches the two idiots are ejected and have permission to go change their underwear. 

Insanely stupid on my part?   Absolutely!  I'm very crazy and judgment proof. I gave it ALL to my ex-wife. I don't own anything. I owe everybody it seems. I'm free as the breeze and afraid of nothing and no man. So, unless you have nothing to lose like I don't then DO NOT try this at home. 

I have told some of you I'm crazy. This proves it. I worked plate for the league all-star game a month later and a couple of players asked me if I was "that ump" who let the two idiots almost get smoked during a standoff. Yep!  That's me!  

Edited by Majordave
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