umpires and labor laws

[Guest Guest]

I belong to an organization that has a clinic coming up. Attendance is "mandatory" for umpires who wish to be assigned in the coming season. The clinic costs three game fees plus we must work multiple games, multiple days, with no pay.

Anyone know if there's any law against requiring me to work free just to get consideration for a job I already have?

[th3]

what job do you already have?

[maven]

There's no law. Decide whether you want to keep working in that group, given the cost. If you do, then it's worth it. If not, then quit.

[Jimurray]

I belong to an organization that has a clinic coming up. Attendance is "mandatory" for umpires who wish to be assigned in the coming season. The clinic costs three game fees plus we must work multiple games, multiple days, with no pay.

Anyone know if there's any law against requiring me to work free just to get consideration for a job I already have?

If it was a job they would have given you a W2 showing FICA and taxes withhold. Did you report those on your taxes? Otherwise you were an independent contractor and @maven's post applies.

[JaxRolo]

So it's about $150 for a weekend clinic. - not bad!

Just go out and learn.

[scrounge]

Making it mandatory and requiring unpaid work puts it into a legal gray area...but are you really going to challenge it? Would the potential judgment - if any, and I doubt there would be, but rather just some tweaking of their procedures to bring it into compliance - be worth the cost in reputation?

 

Some fights aren't worth fighting.

[ALStripes17]

They can't force you to attend. However some of my baseball workouts in college weren't mandatory either, doesn't mean I didn't 'have' to go Side note: you're also not working for free.. you're attending a clinic and getting feedback I hope

[grayhawk]

How much are your association's annual dues? Does that fee include insurance? How much are assigning fees? Our association requires each member to attend A clinic, but also offers a free clinic of its own. The costs of that clinic are paid out of our dues. My thought is that it's BS if you have to pay $150-$225 for a mandatory clinic if you are also paying dues of any significance. Besides, most associations have good enough relationships that fields can be secured for free or for a small fee, and senior members of the association usually will instruct for free as well. Unfortunately for you, if you don't play along, you get no games.

[Rich Ives]

I belong to an organization that has a clinic coming up. Attendance is "mandatory" for umpires who wish to be assigned in the coming season. The clinic costs three game fees plus we must work multiple games, multiple days, with no pay.

Anyone know if there's any law against requiring me to work free just to get consideration for a job I already have?

 

If a job requires a high school diploma does the potential employer have to pay you to go to school? Can the school make you pay to attend (taxes are payment bud)?

[Stan W.]

Strictly a value judgment..........will the $150 cost return over $150 in value?............the clinic will never hurt you..........

[Magic]

How much are your association's annual dues? Does that fee include insurance? How much are assigning fees?Our association requires each member to attend A clinic, but also offers a free clinic of its own. The costs of that clinic are paid out of our dues. My thought is that it's BS if you have to pay $150-$225 for a mandatory clinic if you are also paying dues of any significance. Besides, most associations have good enough relationships that fields can be secured for free or for a small fee, and senior members of the association usually will instruct for free as well. Unfortunately for you, if you don't play along, you get no games.

I wish the fields were easy to come by at a low cost. You have no idea the struggles we go through (went) to secure locations for our clinics.

[mjr_2013]

I'm sure if you asked the association, they'll have no problem saying you don't HAVE to go... Of course, if you want games, that's another story.

 

Legality and association ethics are two totally different beasts. I'm surprised enough people do it to make it worth it for them though. I'd love to see an association near me try and make a $150 clinic mandatory.   

[Umpire in Chief]

From an HR standpoint. You are not an employee and cannot be "required" to attend. On the other hand, the organization also does not have any obligation to schedule you. 

[Majordave]

^^^^^^ what he said^^^^^^^ see above

[grayhawk]

 

How much are your association's annual dues? Does that fee include insurance? How much are assigning fees?Our association requires each member to attend A clinic, but also offers a free clinic of its own. The costs of that clinic are paid out of our dues. My thought is that it's BS if you have to pay $150-$225 for a mandatory clinic if you are also paying dues of any significance. Besides, most associations have good enough relationships that fields can be secured for free or for a small fee, and senior members of the association usually will instruct for free as well. Unfortunately for you, if you don't play along, you get no games.

I wish the fields were easy to come by at a low cost. You have no idea the struggles we go through (went) to secure locations for our clinics.

 

 

Never said it was easy - just that it could be done.  

[Guest Michael W.]

Dear Guest,

 

As an assignor and an association owner I can tell you the following. 

 

1) You are a independent contractor, not an employee

2) If your association has by-laws, I can say with near certainty it says someone working games within the association is a privilege, and being a member doesn't automatically entitle you to assignments. 

3) An association can decide what requirements are needed to determine what's often referred to in bylaws as a "Member in good standing".

4) While I cannot as an assignor force you to attend a mandatory clinic or work free scrimmages, I can make these requirements for your to be a "member in good standing".

 

As an independent contractor, you are entitled to certain protection under the law. That being said, as an assignor who has insurance and lawyers up the wazoo, I can say that I require my members to work two free scrimmages (1 Plate, 1 Bases) for evaluations purposes, and they are also required to attend one mandatory clinic in the spring...I can also tell you that I live legal woe and worry free because if you at the end of the day don't like how I run my association, you are an independent contractor and are under no obligation to work for me, nor am I under any obligation to assign you games regardless of if you do or do not complete my requirements for a member to be in good standing.

 

Trust me bud, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. If you don't want to follow the rules either don't follow their mandatory requirements and watch your assignments disappear, or join another association which probably has similar standards if they are a reputable one.

 

M.W.

I belong to an organization that has a clinic coming up. Attendance is "mandatory" for umpires who wish to be assigned in the coming season. The clinic costs three game fees plus we must work multiple games, multiple days, with no pay.

Anyone know if there's any law against requiring me to work free just to get consideration for a job I already have?

 

[grayhawk]

Does a reputable association charge its own members 3 game fees to attend its own clinic? I sure hope the board publishes financial statements for all members to see.

[Rich Ives]

Does a reputable association charge its own members 3 game fees to attend its own clinic? I sure hope the board publishes financial statements for all members to see.

 

If the association has costs to conduct the clinic you bet your bippy they're charging you somehow.

[Jimurray]

Does a reputable association charge its own members 3 game fees to attend its own clinic? I sure hope the board publishes financial statements for all members to see.

I don't know about current members although most associations don't continue membership year to year but it seems that a lot of college associations require a clinic for new or freshman candidates to compete for a "job." i dont think big dogs have to attend and some of them participate in the clinic. The clinics are actually called "hiring clinics."

I think NCAA is pushing for assignors to have clinics.

[grayhawk]

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

[Magic]

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

Doesn't the NCAA have a mandatory meeting every year. You have to get there on your own dime? I am pretty sure that will cost at least 3 game fees.

[grayhawk]

 

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

Doesn't the NCAA have a mandatory meeting every year. You have to get there on your own dime? I am pretty sure that will cost at least 3 game fees.

 

 

I expect NCAA to have more stringent requirements than high school, but those meetings are not mandatory.

[Magic]

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

Doesn't the NCAA have a mandatory meeting every year. You have to get there on your own dime? I am pretty sure that will cost at least 3 game fees.

I expect NCAA to have more stringent requirements than high school, but those meetings are not mandatory.

Are you positive? Maybe not by the NCAA but by the Conferences they work for?

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

Doesn't the NCAA have a mandatory meeting every year. You have to get there on your own dime? I am pretty sure that will cost at least 3 game fees.

 

I expect NCAA to have more stringent requirements than high school, but those meetings are not mandatory.

 

Are you positive? Maybe not by the NCAA but by the Conferences they work for?

 

 

Don't know about conferences, but it's not an NCAA requirement.  But again, I am talking about what's reasonable for high school, not college.

[Magic]

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

Doesn't the NCAA have a mandatory meeting every year. You have to get there on your own dime? I am pretty sure that will cost at least 3 game fees.

I expect NCAA to have more stringent requirements than high school, but those meetings are not mandatory.

Are you positive? Maybe not by the NCAA but by the Conferences they work for?

Don't know about conferences, but it's not an NCAA requirement. But again, I am talking about what's reasonable for high school, not college.

I agree with your argument but in the same respect what if it costs $3000 to rent the facility for the weekend. It is mandatory that you rent the facility for 2 days and they charge $1500 per day? Now in an association like ours $3000 spread amongst 250 members would work out to about $15 but what if the association only has 50 members? Or what if they have Jim Evans fly in to put on the clinic every year? All we have heard is he doesn't want to pay 3 game fees for his clinic. But if it is justified I see no problem. But if the good ole boys are lining their pockets? That would be a huge problem. And another thing to consider, a lot of these guys are fortunate like you and me. I have 14 High schools within a 10 mile radius of my home and I am sure you do too if not more. Some of these associations might have a high school every 50-60 miles.

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with a clinic as a requirement. But to say you have to go to ours, and we're going to charge you 3 game fees to go is ridiculous.

Doesn't the NCAA have a mandatory meeting every year. You have to get there on your own dime? I am pretty sure that will cost at least 3 game fees.

 

I expect NCAA to have more stringent requirements than high school, but those meetings are not mandatory.

 

Are you positive? Maybe not by the NCAA but by the Conferences they work for?

 

Don't know about conferences, but it's not an NCAA requirement. But again, I am talking about what's reasonable for high school, not college.

 

I agree with your argument but in the same respect what if it costs $3000 to rent the facility for the weekend. It is mandatory that you rent the facility for 2 days and they charge $1500 per day? Now in an association like ours $3000 spread amongst 250 members would work out to about $15 but what if the association only has 50 members? Or what if they have Jim Evans fly in to put on the clinic every year? All we have heard is he doesn't want to pay 3 game fees for his clinic. But if it is justified I see no problem. But if the good ole boys are lining their pockets? That would be a huge problem. And another thing to consider, a lot of these guys are fortunate like you and me. I have 14 High schools within a 10 mile radius of my home and I am sure you do too if not more. Some of these associations might have a high school every 50-60 miles.

 

 

That's why I said that I hope the members get to see the financial records - I know I would like to see the costs associated with the clinic if I was paying about 15% of my season's game fees to attend (based on the 20 games I normally get).  Perhaps they get many more games assigned per member in the OP's association, however.