is it a double play?

[Guest Guest]

this is for ASA softball.

 

runner at first.  the batter hits a line drive to the shortstop.  the shortstop stops the ball with the inside of his glove, the ball drops to the ground.  the shortstop grabs the ball, touches 2nd, throws to first.  both runners did not reach the base prior to the shortstop.

 

is this a double play?  or is this the judgement of the umpire on the intentions of the shortstop?

 

[FleasOf1000Camels]

HTBT.

Umpire must judge F6 intent.

[grayhawk]

Sounds intentionally "dropped" to me. He guided it to the ground with his glove.

[umpcoachfather]

Rule 8 Section 2J (Batter-Runner is Out)

A question was submitted on the situation of an intentionally dropped fly ball as it is explained in the rule supplement. Rule Supplement 30 states “The ball cannot be intentionally dropped unless the fielder has actually caught it and then drops it. Merely guiding the ball to the ground is not an intentionally dropped ball.†The purpose of the rule is to prevent a defensive player from gaining an advantage for a possible double play. To have an “intentionally dropped†ball the ball must be caught and then dropped. It is always umpire judgment as to whether the fielder caught the ball and then dropped it.

Play:B1 hits a soft line drive to the left of F6 which enters the pocket of his glove and then allows the ball to fall to the ground before securing it to create a double play possibility.

Ruling:If in the judgment of the umpire, the ball entered the pocket of the fielder’s glove and the fielder caught the ball and then intentionally let it drop from the glove, the ball is dead, the batter is out and runners return to the last base touched at the time of the pitch

[umpcoachfather]

Appears to be rule - 8-2-j.  and it specifically states the ball must be caught and dropped merely deflecting isnt enough. 


 

[umpcoachfather]

Sorry for the multiple posts but this topic appears to be discussed quite frequently on the internet.  I found this also - INTENTIONALLY DROPPED BALL.
The ball cannot be intentionally dropped unless the fielder has actually caught it, and then drops it. Merely guiding the ball to the ground is not an intentionally dropped ball.

 

[Jimurray]

Sorry for the multiple posts but this topic appears to be discussed quite frequently on the internet.  I found this also - INTENTIONALLY DROPPED BALL.

The ball cannot be intentionally dropped unless the fielder has actually caught it, and then drops it. Merely guiding the ball to the ground is not an intentionally dropped ball.

My 2011 BRD has all three baseball codes stating that "manipulating" the ball to the ground is an intentional drop.

[grayhawk]

 

Sorry for the multiple posts but this topic appears to be discussed quite frequently on the internet.  I found this also - INTENTIONALLY DROPPED BALL.

The ball cannot be intentionally dropped unless the fielder has actually caught it, and then drops it. Merely guiding the ball to the ground is not an intentionally dropped ball.

My 2011 BRD has all three baseball codes stating that "manipulating" the ball to the ground is an intentional drop.

 

 

Which is how I will continue to call it.  If a fielder traps it against the back of his glove and guides it to the ground, there's no way I'm not killing it right there.

[millerforrest]

This was an ASA (softball) game NOT baseball.

[Guest Guest]

This was an ASA (softball) game NOT baseball.

 

will there be a difference in the way it is called because it was softball and not baseball?  i would say no.  its still the rules of baseball; regardless if the game is softball.

[Guest Guest]

 

This was an ASA (softball) game NOT baseball.

 

will there be a difference in the way it is called because it was softball and not baseball?  i would say no.  its still the rules of baseball; regardless if the game is softball.

 

It appears that @umpcoachfather is quoting the ASA rules and interpretations; they would be pertinent to an ASA sanctioned game, and they are different than any baseball ruleset I am familiar with.

 

This isn't necessarily a general softball interpretation, though. LL Softball uses the same interp for baseball and softball, that a guided ball is considered dropped for this rule.

[LMSANS]

 

 

This was an ASA (softball) game NOT baseball.

 

will there be a difference in the way it is called because it was softball and not baseball?  i would say no.  its still the rules of baseball; regardless if the game is softball.

 

It appears that @umpcoachfather is quoting the ASA rules and interpretations; they would be pertinent to an ASA sanctioned game, and they are different than any baseball ruleset I am familiar with.

 

This isn't necessarily a general softball interpretation, though. LL Softball uses the same interp for baseball and softball, that a guided ball is considered dropped for this rule.

 

Original post starts with "This is ASA softball..."

[BigUmpire]

OP = "the batter hits a line drive to the shortstop"

[noumpere]

OP = "the batter hits a line drive to the shortstop"

So what?  I don't see that this part of the OP was ever in question -- only the rules code being used.

[afaber12]

 

OP = "the batter hits a line drive to the shortstop"

So what?  I don't see that this part of the OP was ever in question -- only the rules code being used.

 

 

I would imagine that @BigUmpire 's pointing out (and if he isn't then I will) that if it's a line drive then there's a decreased chance that the ball was intentionally dropped, instead of the player being unable to handle it and unintentionally dropping it. The more line drive-like the hit ball is and the less fly ball-like it is, the less time a fielder has to recognise the situation, therefore less time to decide whether or not to drop the ball or not. That being said, there's hard line drives and soft line drives; the softer it is, again the more time to think and plan and the more likely a drop will be intentional.

 

It's always going to be a judgement call one way or the other, and there's going to be some players that are quicker and sneakier thinkers than others, but it's worth keeping in mind when making a judgement.

[umpcoachfather]

I looked up ASA rules.  You guys need to stop try to find fault first. 

[noumpere]

 

 

OP = "the batter hits a line drive to the shortstop"

So what?  I don't see that this part of the OP was ever in question -- only the rules code being used.

 

 

I would imagine that @BigUmpire 's pointing out (and if he isn't then I will) that if it's a line drive then there's a decreased chance that the ball was intentionally dropped, instead of the player being unable to handle it and unintentionally dropping it. The more line drive-like the hit ball is and the less fly ball-like it is, the less time a fielder has to recognise the situation, therefore less time to decide whether or not to drop the ball or not. That being said, there's hard line drives and soft line drives; the softer it is, again the more time to think and plan and the more likely a drop will be intentional.

 

It's always going to be a judgement call one way or the other, and there's going to be some players that are quicker and sneakier thinkers than others, but it's worth keeping in mind when making a judgement.

 

I disagree. With R1 only (as in the OP), if it's a fly ball, then BR will be at first and there's no time for a DP.  On a line drive, drop it and turn two easily.

[Guest Guest]

thanks guys for all the great answers.

 

to be clear, the line drive hit to me was a sharp line drive.  however, i did let it hit the inside of my glove and i guided it to the ground.  it hit the ground and i picked it up, ran and touched second, then threw to first.  the batter only had taken about 1 or 2 steps out of the box then froze.  the base runner took a couple of steps and went back to first.  when i threw to first, the base runner was standing on first.

 

i didn't hear any call from the umpires.  but the home plate umpire raised his finger indicating 1 out.  so basically he counted the line drive as an out.