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Guest Riles
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Guest Riles

So I am behind the plate during a 13 year old Babe ruth game.  Local rules regarding balks allow for each pitcter to receive 1 warning before any subsequent balks are enforced, which was covered during the ground rules.  So far we have had a great game, score tied 1-1 with not as much as a peep from either coach all game about any of our calls.  Game is between 1st and 2nd place teams and winner will receive a bye in the first round of playoffs.

 

HT is batting in the B8 (extra innings), game still tied 1-1, 2 outs and runner on 3rd.  The pitcher has already received 1 warning for not coming to a pause in his set position back in the 6th inning.  The batter steps in for the pitch, and as the pitcher begins his windup, the bat falls out of the batters hand, who remains in the batters box.  The dropped bat did not appear to be intentional in my opinion (I am not sure that it even matters wether it was intentional or not).  The pitcher, obviously confused, freezes in the middle of his windup and does not deliver a pitch.  I rule Balk, and it is enforced, causing the winning run to score, game over.

 

As you can imagine, all holy hell breaks out in the away team bench, and their fans.  HC is livid, claiming that the batter can't confuse his pitcher like that.  Parents and fans are letting me have it, asking how I can let such an important game end on that play.  Did I make the right call?

 

 

Side note - Next time I run into the HT coach, he tells me that the dropped bat play was one that he has practiced with his team all year, and it worked to perfection.  His batter deserves an Emmy for the acting job he pulled on me.

 

 

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No way in holy hell am I balking that.  Number one, it's a safety issue and I am killing it when the bat gets dropped (I don't know if the batter is going to try to reach down for the bat while the pitcher delivers).  Secondly, the batter cannot cause the pitcher to balk:

 

 

6.02( b ) Penalty Comment: If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€
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Prob not what you want to hear, but NO WAY I'm balking that.

 

(Both hands up) TIME-NO PITCH-TIME!

 

PS: Don't kid yourself...this WAS a designed play.

When was the last time you saw a batter at this age simply drop the bat while in the box?

What are the odds that the bat got accidentally dropped at that precise moment when the pitcher had committed?

Look at the game situation, extra innings, championship game, runs at a premium, winning run on 3rd.

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Guest Riles

Always appreciate the feedback, but I like to argue (maybe I should have been a lawyer).

 

From Grayhawk-

6.02( b ) Penalty Comment: If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

With respect the rule above, the batter "advertently" caused the pitcher to interrupt his delievery, it doesn't mention what the call should be in this case.  Also, the only reference I could find in my rule book was if a batter steps out of the box to interrupt the pitchers delievery.  No where does it make reference to a dropped bat, or any other motion.

 

6.02 (a) The batter shall take his position in the batter’s box promptly when it is his time

at bat.

(b) The batter shall not leave his position in the batter’s box after the pitcher comes

to Set Position, or starts his windup.

Penalty: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call “Ball†or “Strike,†as the case may be.

The batter leaves the batter’s box at the risk of having a strike delivered and called,

unless he requests the umpire to call “Time.†The batter is not at liberty to step in and out of

the batter’s box at will.

Once a batter has taken his position in the batter’s box, he shall not be permitted to step

out of the batter’s box in order to use the resin or the pine tar rag, unless there is a delay in

the game action or, in the judgment of the umpires, weather conditions warrant an exception.

Umpires will not call “Time†at the request of the batter or any member of his team once

the pitcher has started his windup or has come to a set position even though the batter claims

“dust in his eyes,†“steamed glasses,†“didn’t get the sign,†or for any other cause.

Umpires may grant a hitter’s request for “Time†once he is in the batter’s box, but the

umpire should eliminate hitters walking out of the batter’s box without reason. If umpires are

not lenient, batters will understand that they are in the batter’s box and they must remain

there until the ball is pitched.

If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not

justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does

not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be

called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time

and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

 

 

Don't get me wrong, part of me hated making that call.  But there is another part of me that respects the HT coach for knowing the rules that well.  He has coached at this level for 40+ years and is one of the few coaches who actually teaches his players the game and is not a weekend warrior Dad.

 

I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

 

 

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So I am behind the plate during a 13 year old Babe ruth game.  Local rules regarding balks allow for each pitcter to receive 1 warning before any subsequent balks are enforced, which was covered during the ground rules.  So far we have had a great game, score tied 1-1 with not as much as a peep from either coach all game about any of our calls.  Game is between 1st and 2nd place teams and winner will receive a bye in the first round of playoffs.

 

HT is batting in the B8 (extra innings), game still tied 1-1, 2 outs and runner on 3rd.  The pitcher has already received 1 warning for not coming to a pause in his set position back in the 6th inning.  The batter steps in for the pitch, and as the pitcher begins his windup, the bat falls out of the batters hand, who remains in the batters box.  The dropped bat did not appear to be intentional in my opinion (I am not sure that it even matters wether it was intentional or not).  The pitcher, obviously confused, freezes in the middle of his windup and does not deliver a pitch.  I rule Balk, and it is enforced, causing the winning run to score, game over.

 

As you can imagine, all holy hell breaks out in the away team bench, and their fans.  HC is livid, claiming that the batter can't confuse his pitcher like that.  Parents and fans are letting me have it, asking how I can let such an important game end on that play.  Did I make the right call?

 

 

Side note - Next time I run into the HT coach, he tells me that the dropped bat play was one that he has practiced with his team all year, and it worked to perfection.  His batter deserves an Emmy for the acting job he pulled on me.

You hosed it.

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Always appreciate the feedback, but I like to argue (maybe I should have been a lawyer).

 

From Grayhawk-

6.02( b ) Penalty Comment: If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

With respect the rule above, the batter "advertently" caused the pitcher to interrupt his delievery, it doesn't mention what the call should be in this case.  Also, the only reference I could find in my rule book was if a batter steps out of the box to interrupt the pitchers delievery.  No where does it make reference to a dropped bat, or any other motion.

 

6.02 (a) The batter shall take his position in the batter’s box promptly when it is his time

at bat.

(b) The batter shall not leave his position in the batter’s box after the pitcher comes

to Set Position, or starts his windup.

Penalty: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call “Ball†or “Strike,†as the case may be.

The batter leaves the batter’s box at the risk of having a strike delivered and called,

unless he requests the umpire to call “Time.†The batter is not at liberty to step in and out of

the batter’s box at will.

Once a batter has taken his position in the batter’s box, he shall not be permitted to step

out of the batter’s box in order to use the resin or the pine tar rag, unless there is a delay in

the game action or, in the judgment of the umpires, weather conditions warrant an exception.

Umpires will not call “Time†at the request of the batter or any member of his team once

the pitcher has started his windup or has come to a set position even though the batter claims

“dust in his eyes,†“steamed glasses,†“didn’t get the sign,†or for any other cause.

Umpires may grant a hitter’s request for “Time†once he is in the batter’s box, but the

umpire should eliminate hitters walking out of the batter’s box without reason. If umpires are

not lenient, batters will understand that they are in the batter’s box and they must remain

there until the ball is pitched.

If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not

justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does

not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be

called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time

and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

 

 

Don't get me wrong, part of me hated making that call.  But there is another part of me that respects the HT coach for knowing the rules that well.  He has coached at this level for 40+ years and is one of the few coaches who actually teaches his players the game and is not a weekend warrior Dad.

 

I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

He gave you a rule cite...

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Always appreciate the feedback, but I like to argue (maybe I should have been a lawyer).

From Grayhawk-

6.02( b ) Penalty Comment: If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

With respect the rule above, the batter "advertently" caused the pitcher to interrupt his delievery, it doesn't mention what the call should be in this case. Also, the only reference I could find in my rule book was if a batter steps out of the box to interrupt the pitchers delievery. No where does it make reference to a dropped bat, or any other motion.

6.02 (a) The batter shall take his position in the batter’s box promptly when it is his time

at bat.

(b) The batter shall not leave his position in the batter’s box after the pitcher comes

to Set Position, or starts his windup.

Penalty: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call “Ball†or “Strike,†as the case may be.

The batter leaves the batter’s box at the risk of having a strike delivered and called,

unless he requests the umpire to call “Time.†The batter is not at liberty to step in and out of

the batter’s box at will.

Once a batter has taken his position in the batter’s box, he shall not be permitted to step

out of the batter’s box in order to use the resin or the pine tar rag, unless there is a delay in

the game action or, in the judgment of the umpires, weather conditions warrant an exception.

Umpires will not call “Time†at the request of the batter or any member of his team once

the pitcher has started his windup or has come to a set position even though the batter claims

“dust in his eyes,†“steamed glasses,†“didn’t get the sign,†or for any other cause.

Umpires may grant a hitter’s request for “Time†once he is in the batter’s box, but the

umpire should eliminate hitters walking out of the batter’s box without reason. If umpires are

not lenient, batters will understand that they are in the batter’s box and they must remain

there until the ball is pitched.

If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not

justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does

not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be

called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time

and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

Don't get me wrong, part of me hated making that call. But there is another part of me that respects the HT coach for knowing the rules that well. He has coached at this level for 40+ years and is one of the few coaches who actually teaches his players the game and is not a weekend warrior Dad.

I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

It's called a "dirty balk" for a reason.

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Don't get me wrong, part of me hated making that call.  But there is another part of me that respects the HT coach for knowing the rules that well.  He has coached at this level for 40+ years and is one of the few coaches who actually teaches his players the game and is not a weekend warrior Dad.

 

I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

 

Teaching this kind of bush-league, mickey mouse bull%@# isn't teaching anyone anything except how to be a weasel. And you facilitated it.

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So you came on here just to argue. :shakehead:

You knew what the rule was, you missed the call, you asked a question, got confirmation on what you knew and so you decided to argue.  Are you sure you're not a coach?

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Don't get me wrong, part of me hated making that call.

 

You should hate making that call - you kicked the crap out of it.

 

But there is another part of me that respects the HT coach for knowing the rules that well.  He has coached at this level for 40+ years and is one of the few coaches who actually teaches his players the game and is not a weekend warrior Dad.

 

What you have is not a coach that knows the rules.  You have a coach that is good at duping uninformed umpires into making calls that are contrary to the rules.

 

I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

 

If you aren't convinced by now, you never will be.

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A legion team tried to pull this during a tournament in an attempt to avoid going to tiebreakers for seeding purposes.  With a win, they would have gotten a bye.  The game had passed the no new inning after 2 hours with the score tied.  The home team had second and third with 2 outs and the 9 hole batter up.  The umpires did not balk the play and the game ended in a tie.  According to the plate ump from that game, it was obviously done on purpose.  The handshake line after the game almost ended up with coaches fighting at home plate.  Its not just at the youth level where this bush-league stuff happens.     

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Always appreciate the feedback, but I like to argue (maybe I should have been a lawyer).

 

From Grayhawk-

6.02( b ) Penalty Comment: If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

With respect the rule above, the batter "advertently" caused the pitcher to interrupt his delievery, it doesn't mention what the call should be in this case.  Also, the only reference I could find in my rule book was if a batter steps out of the box to interrupt the pitchers delievery.  No where does it make reference to a dropped bat, or any other motion.

 

6.02 (a) The batter shall take his position in the batter’s box promptly when it is his time

at bat.

(b) The batter shall not leave his position in the batter’s box after the pitcher comes

to Set Position, or starts his windup.

Penalty: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call “Ball†or “Strike,†as the case may be.

The batter leaves the batter’s box at the risk of having a strike delivered and called,

unless he requests the umpire to call “Time.†The batter is not at liberty to step in and out of

the batter’s box at will.

Once a batter has taken his position in the batter’s box, he shall not be permitted to step

out of the batter’s box in order to use the resin or the pine tar rag, unless there is a delay in

the game action or, in the judgment of the umpires, weather conditions warrant an exception.

Umpires will not call “Time†at the request of the batter or any member of his team once

the pitcher has started his windup or has come to a set position even though the batter claims

“dust in his eyes,†“steamed glasses,†“didn’t get the sign,†or for any other cause.

Umpires may grant a hitter’s request for “Time†once he is in the batter’s box, but the

umpire should eliminate hitters walking out of the batter’s box without reason. If umpires are

not lenient, batters will understand that they are in the batter’s box and they must remain

there until the ball is pitched.

If pitcher delays once the batter is in his box and the umpire feels that the delay is not

justified he may allow the batter to step out of the box momentarily.

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does

not go through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be

called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time

and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.â€

 

 

Don't get me wrong, part of me hated making that call.  But there is another part of me that respects the HT coach for knowing the rules that well.  He has coached at this level for 40+ years and is one of the few coaches who actually teaches his players the game and is not a weekend warrior Dad.

 

I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

 

"Inadvertent" means unintentional.  So you think the rule protects a pitcher if the batter accidentally distracts the pitcher but doesn't protect him if the batter purposely distracts him?  So by your logic, and I use that term loosely", if the batter sneezes and causes the pitcher to stop his motion "no balk", but if a batter starts dancing and singing while in the batters box and the pitcher stops his motion, "balk".  I like to argue to, but come on.  This is common sense.

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I still think I need to see a rule to be convinced...

 4.06 (a) 3

 

No Manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer, shall at any time:

 

3. commmit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher balk.....(condensed by me)

 

 

the rule book is oddly worded and ill organized but surprizingly complete........ you made an incorrect call......live and learn......

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The rulebook is not designed to cover every situation that can happen during a game. Try using some common sense. Call time. Reset. Do not penalize the pitcher for something the batter does or does not do especially 13 year olds.

 

Except in this case it did cover it. . . twice!

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Notice that Grayhawk's cite differs from the OP's cite. The change was in the 2014 version:

 

"Amended Rule 6.02(b) Comment to nullify a balk caused by “inadvertent†actions by

the batter. (Batter is no longer limited to stepping out of the batter’s box in order for
the balk to be nullified.)"
 
Might have something to do with that play last year with the batter yelling time and the pitcher stopping and being balked. I thought back then that the PU was conned but by rule he was right. This year he wouldn't be right.
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 I believe we have a batters interference and the batter is out . This falls under that rule that was created by MLB cuz of AROD shouting at the infield . I believe the bench nor the batter can cuz a balk during this play ....

 

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