Terminal Ugliness

[jkumpire]

I am working a tournament in a certain area of some significance for that area. I am on the plate for the same team for the 3rd time in 3 days this time in an elimination game against a local rival. OBR.  My Plate meeting went like this: "Good afternoon gentlemen, sorry you have to play each other before the championship game. Have your on-deck hitters help out with foul balls behind the plate. Unsportsmanlike behavior will not be tolerated.  Good luck men."

 

Score is 6-3 home, 1 out 5th inning of 7. Home team batter on 1-1 pitch squats down and ducks curve ball over the plate. Of course I immediately call strike.  He grounds out to F6 the next pitch. 1B coach who has already been told by my 1B umpire why the strike was called and to calm down walks back down toward bench beside/behind me and yells loudly enough for stands to hear. "We need some consistency from you back here Blue!" 

 

I almost ejected him then, but instead loudly replied, "I really don't care what you think coach, get in the dugout." After telling his manager (who most everyone has trouble with in the tournament) what supposedly happened, the manager walks out of his dugout to where the two people running the tournament are, and spends the next next half-inning gesturing and complaining about me, while his team gives up 2 runs.

 

Next inning, 1B coach walked around to go to 1B, and loudly says to me "Well, the good thing about this is once we are done here we are going to a league in (new town named) next year." 

 

I immediately responded: "Well, you can start heading that way right now!" and dumped him. 

 

Game ends later, 7 innings in 1:30 or so, team who had their assistant dumped wins 6-5.

 

Q1: Was this a justifiable ejection, or was I a p***** d*** and several other things I was called by the coach after i dumped him? Should I just have ignored the comments?

 

***********

 

<Postscript rant>

 

After the game I and my crew head to the locker room, and I already know I'm not going  to get my assigned game three hours later, the losers bracket final. One of the directors walks into our locker room, his first words were: "Who is working the game tonight? I am the only one who is, and I told him.

 

Then I asked, "Do you want a report?" and I told him exactly what I typed above. Then he leaves. 

 

The game ends at 4:00. At 4:03 the assigner, who is at work an hour away, gets a call from the director saying "You need to call _____ and tell him he is off the game, and find a replacement." When the assigner said he was at work, he was told "This is your job, do it." 

 

I guess now it is okay to say or do anything you want if you don't like an umpire's call, especally since coaches think it's okay to run all over umpires and say anything they want to them while we quietly ignore their comments and actions. Most all of these people coaching have no training or understanding about the rules, how to complain about a call, deal with umpires, or control their kids. I won't go through the rest of the backstory, I just need to to know if I was too quick to eject in this game. 

 

</postscript rant>

 

*************

[jkumpire]

This was my first ejection at any level in over a year. Very discouraging to have to do it. In my area kids summer baseball (HS age and under), like other sports, is about ruined. If my kids, who are now grown, would want to play any sport outside of a school team, I wouldn't let them.   

[Jocko]

Sounds like a good EJ to me. Too bad this wasn't a fed game. You'd have restricted HC to the dugout to boot :D

[jkumpire]

You don't know how much I wanted it to be a Fed game, or another game earlier in the tournament to give an NCAA postgame ejection to a coach after a game (who sai dhe was a 'certified umpire')

[umpstu]

What was the reason for conducting the plate meeting like you did? Seems like it would put everybody on the defensive mode.  How about, "Good afternoon. It's good to be working this game for you.  Could you have the on deck guys help out with foul balls?"  To me it seems as if you are baiting them for some reason.

 

As far as the ejection goes it was a good one and your tournament director sucks.  I could never work for somebody like that.

[immaculate1976]

I had a coach go crazy on me cause I called a runner safe at home cause his catcher was blocking the plate without the ball. He told me I was making rules up, had no clue about how to umpire and was trying to screw his team over. He then says he is never playing here again he was going to a different complex next year. I said coach I will give you a head start there your gone. His AC says F&ck you blue and I said your gone too see if you can beat him there.

 

Also if I read it right did the director get you thrown off your game?

[ricka56]

Q1: Was this a justifiable ejection, or was I a p***** d*** and several other things I was called by the coach after i dumped him? Should I just have ignored the comments?

You had him on a short leash because of his previous behavior, but lets look at the trigger words alone..."Well, the good thing about this is once we are done here we are going to a league in (new town named) next year."  I know he was insinusating that you suck, but can you really glean that from those words ? I don't see an ejection here yet. I think the obvious response would be, "don't let the gate hit you in the arse on the way out." And then I'd be ready with the trigger finger because you know he's not going to let that snappy retort go unanswered.

 

I do consider it unprofessional to bait a coach into an ejection, and I don't do it unprovoked, and even when provoked I try not lower myself to a-hole coach's level...but sometimes, it just feels right. If they've got to go, then they've got to go. 

[renegadewolf]

"I really don't care what you think coach, get in the dugout." 

That was really unnecessary, and infact kinda turns the table and makes you look like the agressor. A simple "thats enough" would have been preferable, and likely wouldn't have resulted in the coach going to the TD and if I may...in my humble opinion likely would have not resulted in being unassigned.

[jkumpire]

Stu,

 

Without going into detail, the team whose coach I ejected lost the previous day 16-2 and blamed me for being beat, and there had been other cases of USC during the game. When the coach of the team who won the game showed up at the plate meeting, refused to shake me hand and rolled his eyes as my crew walked to the plate, I'm not sure I could say anything to calm things down.

 

 

Wolf,

 

We had already gone past the "That's enough" stage already.  Every time I didn't call a pitch they didn't like, I was hearing dugout comments, and we had gone past the 'warn, ignore' stage at that point (already been tried). Probably I did say too much at that point, but he's ten feet away shouting in the direction of the stands. 

 

All,

 

Thanks for your comments so far. Maybe I was too harsh.

[jkumpire]

Ricka,

 

If it was a upper level game or above, I probably would have laughed, or said "glad to hear it, so i don't have to see you."  At the age and playing level of the participants and the loud voice he used, I didn't feel I had that option. But it is a good point.

[jkumpire]

1976,

 

Yes.

[maven]

We had already gone past the "That's enough" stage already.  Every time I didn't call a pitch they didn't like, I was hearing dugout comments, and we had gone past the 'warn, ignore' stage at that point (already been tried). Probably I did say too much at that point, but he's ten feet away shouting in the direction of the stands.

If the asst. is still misbehaving after having been warned, then don't ignore it. Ask the manager to come out, calmly tell him that his asst. is ejected, and that the game will resume when he's beyond the visual confines of the field.

 

He'll ask why and is entitled to know. Even if it's totally obvious, tell him: "I warned him, and he persisted in making personal and unsportsmanlike comments."

 

If he wants to argue: "Coach, I asked you to come over as a courtesy to inform you of the ejection. There is nothing to discuss. Let's play ball."

 

If he persists, he can join his buddy sipping gatorade in the shade.

 

It's tough not to lose my temper when I'm attacked personally. But when coach says, "You suck!" all I hear is "I wanna leave!" Why would I be mad about excusing someone who no longer desires to be present?

[bluejerred]

You don't know how much I wanted it to be a Fed game, or another game earlier in the tournament to give an NCAA postgame ejection to a coach after a game (who sai dhe was a 'certified umpire')

Any time a coach tells you that he or she is an umpire before, during, or after a game - migraines are going to follow.  You can pretty much set your watch to it.

[Replacematt]

"I'm an umpire."

"Not here, you're not."

[grayhawk]

1B coach who has already been told by my 1B umpire why the strike was called and to calm down walks back down toward bench beside/behind me and yells loudly enough for stands to hear. "We need some consistency from you back here Blue!"

 

Honestly, you would have been more than justified ejecting him right here.  He's showing you up, and inciting the crowd as well.  Since he's an assistant, he gets no rope on comments like this made loud enough for the fans to hear.  He was also already "warned" by your partner - so no need to keep him around.

[umpire_scott]

 

1B coach who has already been told by my 1B umpire why the strike was called and to calm down walks back down toward bench beside/behind me and yells loudly enough for stands to hear. "We need some consistency from you back here Blue!"

 

Honestly, you would have been more than justified ejecting him right here.  He's showing you up, and inciting the crowd as well.  Since he's an assistant, he gets no rope on comments like this made loud enough for the fans to hear.  He was also already "warned" by your partner - so no need to keep him around.

 

 

I agree with this.  In your OP you didn't say that the ignore/warn had already been done.  Since it had been the "we need consistency. . ." would have been more than enough.  What good is a warning with no repercussion when it's violated?  

 

I also agree with Renegadewolf that your comment was ill-advised.  I'll be the first to admit that in the heat of the moment I've said very similar things.  But I can look back and realize that I should have handled it differently.

[umpire_scott]

"I'm an umpire."

"Not here, you're not."

 

Mr. Vargas: "Are you in my class?"

Spicolli: "I am today"

 

Coach: "I'm an umpire"

ME: "You're not today"

[RichMSN]

Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't appreciate any partner of mine addressing balls and strikes with a coach.

 

He probably should've been run earlier.  That can come back to bite you in the a$$ later.  It did.

 

I'd scratch that tournament from further use of your time.

[immaculate1976]

 

You don't know how much I wanted it to be a Fed game, or another game earlier in the tournament to give an NCAA postgame ejection to a coach after a game (who sai dhe was a 'certified umpire')

Any time a coach tells you that he or she is an umpire before, during, or after a game - migraines are going to follow.  You can pretty much set your watch to it.

 

 

 

Everytime I get a coach that tells me he is a umpire one of two things are going to happen

 

1) He is a good umpire knows the rules and gives me no problems

 

2) He is a complete loser who thinks I am going to give him calls or ask for his thought. Most of the time they are bad umpires who dont know the rules.

 

I have coached for 20 years and been a umpire for 18 years. I have never one time while coaching told the umpire that I am a umpire. 

[bluejerred]

 

 

You don't know how much I wanted it to be a Fed game, or another game earlier in the tournament to give an NCAA postgame ejection to a coach after a game (who sai dhe was a 'certified umpire')

Any time a coach tells you that he or she is an umpire before, during, or after a game - migraines are going to follow.  You can pretty much set your watch to it.

 

 

 

Everytime I get a coach that tells me he is a umpire one of two things are going to happen

 

1) He is a good umpire knows the rules and gives me no problems

 

2) He is a complete loser who thinks I am going to give him calls or ask for his thought. Most of the time they are bad umpires who dont know the rules.

 

I have coached for 20 years and been a umpire for 18 years. I have never one time while coaching told the umpire that I am a umpire. 

 

And, since you are #2, I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that when you coach, the only time you address an umpire is when it is proper and necessary?

[jkumpire]

 

We had already gone past the "That's enough" stage already.  Every time I didn't call a pitch they didn't like, I was hearing dugout comments, and we had gone past the 'warn, ignore' stage at that point (already been tried). Probably I did say too much at that point, but he's ten feet away shouting in the direction of the stands.

If the asst. is still misbehaving after having been warned, then don't ignore it. Ask the manager to come out, calmly tell him that his asst. is ejected, and that the game will resume when he's beyond the visual confines of the field.

 

He'll ask why and is entitled to know. Even if it's totally obvious, tell him: "I warned him, and he persisted in making personal and unsportsmanlike comments."

 

If he wants to argue: "Coach, I asked you to come over as a courtesy to inform you of the ejection. There is nothing to discuss. Let's play ball."

 

If he persists, he can join his buddy sipping gatorade in the shade.

 

It's tough not to lose my temper when I'm attacked personally. But when coach says, "You suck!" all I hear is "I wanna leave!" Why would I be mad about excusing someone who no longer desires to be present?

 

 

 

Maven,

 

I respect many of your posts here but I think you are mistaken. Inviting the head coach out for a conversation is offering the HC a free shot at you, because the last thing he will do is talk about his assistant's behavior.  If your conversation as you laid it out could happen, you might have a case. But a non-trained or non-professional coach is not going to respond like that.

 

And that in many ways is the real problem here and on so many other levels of youth baseball: Coach, parents, or coach/parents have no clue on how to express a disagreement with an umpire other than yelling or publically displaying their dislike of a call in front of everyone. 

[jkumpire]

Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't appreciate any partner of mine addressing balls and strikes with a coach.

 

He probably should've been run earlier.  That can come back to bite you in the a$$ later.  It did.

 

I'd scratch that tournament from further use of your time.

 

Rich,

 

On the levels you and I normally work you are 100% right.

 

With younger age players and coaches who have no clue, i have no problem with this. The ducking of the pitch was so obvious a blind man could see it if he had his back turned to home plate, and my 1B partner tried to diffuse the situation before the 1B coach got in trouble. If the 1B coach or manager would have asked why I called that pitch a strike I would have gladly told him why. Instead he wanted to yell and let his anger buy the next call. Of course what he got was a ticket out of town.

 

To your other comment about ejecting him earlier; My first thought was to dump him, but the tournament directors do not like ejections and prefer that they not happen. So I tried to keep him in the game instead, in hindsight my mistake. Then at least the manager would have something to complain about to the tournament managers.   

[ricka56]

Inviting the head coach out for a conversation is offering the HC a free shot at you, because the last thing he will do is talk about his assistant's behavior.  If your conversation as you laid it out could happen, you might have a case. But a non-trained or non-professional coach is not going to respond like that.

 

If HC wants to pick up where AC left off, then he can join AC in the parking lot.

As Maven said, there is nothing here to discuss. Be firm, don't allow an argument.

[jkumpire]

Men,

 

Several of you have noted that my loud command "I don't really care what you think, get in the dugout" was too harsh, or baiting, I partly agree with you. Nobody wants to hear an umpire get into such a loud disagreement, especially with the age of kids this tournament was. 

 

OTOH, when you are dealing with people who have no idea how to approach an umpire, or question a call in any other way than throwing a match into a can of gas, what do you want me to say or do? Maven had one idea that I don't think would work, other suggestions are appreciated.

 

Sadly with this team and one or two others I saw in the tournament, the players do exactly what the coaches do. If they see gestures or yelling by their coaches at the umpire, or start complaining about every pitch they don't like (which this team did) do you start dumping players left and right, or use a sharp word to calm them down,or just ignore them until you end up with a real mess on your hands? The sharp words were meant to try and end the bad behavior before the assistant coach dumped himself. He didn't take a hint.  

 

One last point: Earlier in this tournament I sturck a kid out on a corner pitch. His response: He turned around and said "OH My God!" Needless to say I brought him back to look at me and said, "Do not say that again", or words to that effect, just loud enough for him to hear. Two innings later I handed his HC a bat at the end of the inning as he came down from the 3B coach's box. I told the coach quietly (who also an umpire btw) what he did,  what I said to him and asked him to take care of it. His first words were, "Well, I trust his zone completely." 

 

My quiet response was, "Coach, I have a little more experience than him in calling strikes, please take care of it." He didn't, because his attitude was that it was his player and his player never makes mistakes . 

 

That is the kind of crap too many umpires have to put up with, and I don't just swallow my tongue and take it any more. 

[maven]

Maven,

 

I respect many of your posts here but I think you are mistaken. Inviting the head coach out for a conversation is offering the HC a free shot at you, because the last thing he will do is talk about his assistant's behavior.

Thank you, and you might be right. I expect that whether I ask to speak to the coach to communicate the EJ will depend on how much of a howler monkey he has been to that point.

 

I try to be charitable (attributing the best possible motives to others) and respectful for as long as I possibly can. Then they get, "that's enough" or "knock it off," and if they still don't get it, they can go. Not that I become disrespectful, but you can't really treat someone respectfully who's not there.