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3b coach yells fire from coaches box

umpire23

By umpire23
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umpire23

umpire23

Posted
Posted

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

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Replacematt
Replacematt

R1/R3 and an ejected 3B coach.

Jocko
Jocko

Lock it up

maven
maven

If you rule this verbal INT, you have to call someone out. Who will that be?   I would not rule this verbal INT. The offense is trying to get a cheap run by doing one of 3 things: make the pitcher b

Replacematt

Replacematt

Posted
Posted

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

R1/R3 and an ejected 3B coach.

  • Like 6
conbo61

conbo61

Posted
Posted

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

Verbal Interference - FED 2.21.1.A

 

Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat:

 

a. which interferes, obstructs, impedes or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play....

 

You could dump the coach under 3.3.1.g.4.  It might be a stretch.  Anytime a pitcher makes a move on the mound people scream "Balk!",  so it may be tough to say he did it to intentionally confuse.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

 

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

Verbal Interference - FED 2.21.1.A

 

Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat:

 

a. which interferes, obstructs, impedes or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play....

 

You could dump the coach under 3.3.1.g.4.  It might be a stretch.  Anytime a pitcher makes a move on the mound people scream "Balk!",  so it may be tough to say he did it to intentionally confuse.

 

Ok, ..assuming the above here .....

If you DIDN'T dump the coach based on 3.3.1.g.4 being a stretch as conbo61 says ..... the only other thing you could do would be to warn him or restrict him, but ...because you have INT, you'd have to put R1 back to first, yes? (no, I don't have a book on me :))  I'm 99.9% sure, just checking :wave:

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

 

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

Verbal Interference - FED 2.21.1.A

 

Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat:

 

a. which interferes, obstructs, impedes or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play....

 

You could dump the coach under 3.3.1.g.4.  It might be a stretch.  Anytime a pitcher makes a move on the mound people scream "Balk!",  so it may be tough to say he did it to intentionally confuse.

 

 

If you rule this verbal INT, you have to call someone out. Who will that be?

 

I would not rule this verbal INT. The offense is trying to get a cheap run by doing one of 3 things: make the pitcher balk, fool the umpire into calling a balk, or run their double steal play.

 

You can thwart all 3 by calling time, putting the runners back, and warning the coach that the next outburst will result in his ejection.

 

I will also say that, if the coach's shout had caused F1 to balk, you should kill it, ignore the balk, and reset.

  • Like 1
noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

 

 

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

Verbal Interference - FED 2.21.1.A

 

Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat:

 

a. which interferes, obstructs, impedes or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play....

 

You could dump the coach under 3.3.1.g.4.  It might be a stretch.  Anytime a pitcher makes a move on the mound people scream "Balk!",  so it may be tough to say he did it to intentionally confuse.

 

Ok, ..assuming the above here .....

If you DIDN'T dump the coach based on 3.3.1.g.4 being a stretch as conbo61 says ..... the only other thing you could do would be to warn him or restrict him, but ...because you have INT, you'd have to put R1 back to first, yes? (no, I don't have a book on me :))  I'm 99.9% sure, just checking :wave:

 

If you have INT you have to get an out.

 

I think the references are 3-3-1o and 5-1-2d

tldavis19

tldavis19

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

Verbal Interference - FED 2.21.1.A

 

Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat:

 

a. which interferes, obstructs, impedes or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play....

 

You could dump the coach under 3.3.1.g.4.  It might be a stretch.  Anytime a pitcher makes a move on the mound people scream "Balk!",  so it may be tough to say he did it to intentionally confuse.

 

Ok, ..assuming the above here .....

If you DIDN'T dump the coach based on 3.3.1.g.4 being a stretch as conbo61 says ..... the only other thing you could do would be to warn him or restrict him, but ...because you have INT, you'd have to put R1 back to first, yes? (no, I don't have a book on me :))  I'm 99.9% sure, just checking :wave:

 

If you have INT you have to get an out.

 

I think the references are 3-3-1o and 5-1-2d

 

Who do you get the out on? 

conbo61

conbo61

Posted
Posted

 

 

A new one for me: nfhs rules... R1/R3 with 1 out. F1 comes set and R1 takes off. F1 legally disengages the rubber. 3B coach starts shouting "balk" and the pitcher and fielders stop what they are doing thinking it is one of the umpires that called balk. R1 safely makes it to second. What do you have?

 

Verbal Interference - FED 2.21.1.A

 

Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat:

 

a. which interferes, obstructs, impedes or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play....

 

You could dump the coach under 3.3.1.g.4.  It might be a stretch.  Anytime a pitcher makes a move on the mound people scream "Balk!",  so it may be tough to say he did it to intentionally confuse.

 

 

If you rule this verbal INT, you have to call someone out. Who will that be?

 

I would not rule this verbal INT. The offense is trying to get a cheap run by doing one of 3 things: make the pitcher balk, fool the umpire into calling a balk, or run their double steal play.

 

You can thwart all 3 by calling time, putting the runners back, and warning the coach that the next outburst will result in his ejection.

 

I will also say that, if the coach's shout had caused F1 to balk, you should kill it, ignore the balk, and reset.

 

 

Good point. This one where there is not much guidance in the rule book.

 

I would kill it.  Toss the coach and return the runners as noted by @Matt

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

I would kill it.  Toss the coach and return the runners as noted by @Matt

HS varsity and up: this ruling is definitely supportable.

 

Subvarsity and down: I'd recommend a warning in lieu of an EJ for a first offense. If it's an ABS EJ, then I could support that, too.

catsbackr

catsbackr

Posted
Posted

I'd put the runner back on first and very sternly let the coach know that my partner and I had the balk calls and any further mention by him would result in his ejection.  "That's your warning, coach!"

conbo61

conbo61

Posted
Posted

 

I would kill it.  Toss the coach and return the runners as noted by @Matt

HS varsity and up: this ruling is definitely supportable.

 

Subvarsity and down: I'd recommend a warning in lieu of an EJ for a first offense. If it's an ABS EJ, then I could support that, too.

 

 

Yet another case where a FED Interpretation Manual would be extremely helpful.

blue23ll

blue23ll

Posted
Posted

No verbal interference here, a stern warning to the coach though.

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

 

 

I would kill it.  Toss the coach and return the runners as noted by @Matt

HS varsity and up: this ruling is definitely supportable.

 

Subvarsity and down: I'd recommend a warning in lieu of an EJ for a first offense. If it's an ABS EJ, then I could support that, too.

 

 

Yet another case where a FED Interpretation Manual would be extremely helpful.

 

You mean besides the case book?

Umpire in Chief

Umpire in Chief

Posted
Posted

I would not rule this verbal INT. The offense is trying to get a cheap run by doing one of 3 things: make the pitcher balk, fool the umpire into calling a balk, or run their double steal play.

 

You can thwart all 3 by calling time, putting the runners back, and warning the coach that the next outburst will result in his ejection.

 

I will also say that, if the coach's shout had caused F1 to balk, you should kill it, ignore the balk, and reset.

I like Maven's thought here.

Yes, the rules give us the ability to eject in this situation and you would be well within your rights, but you have more tools in your arsenal than the EJ. There are times we need to exercise our game management techniques and not default to the EJ. I feel that this is one of them.

KLAH316

KLAH316

Posted
Posted

 

I would not rule this verbal INT. The offense is trying to get a cheap run by doing one of 3 things: make the pitcher balk, fool the umpire into calling a balk, or run their double steal play.

 

You can thwart all 3 by calling time, putting the runners back, and warning the coach that the next outburst will result in his ejection.

 

I will also say that, if the coach's shout had caused F1 to balk, you should kill it, ignore the balk, and reset.

I like Maven's thought here.

Yes, the rules give us the ability to eject in this situation and you would be well within your rights, but you have more tools in your arsenal than the EJ. There are times we need to exercise our game management techniques and not default to the EJ. I feel that this is one of them.

 

UIC,

If the coach is yelling about a balk and it doesn't effect the F1 or makes him balk, then a stern warning is being delivered.....

However, in the OP the coach yelling BALK caused an actual BALK..... In that instance, he's going to the parking lot. :wave:

  • Like 1
dumbdumb

dumbdumb

Posted
Posted

The 3b coach does this in every game. Does he get 20 or however many games they play warnings for this obvious intentional act per year, just working (isn't that some hoops announcers term) the umpires every game. So he gets 20-30 freebies just like he could get 20+ restrictions every year for every game played for the exact same offense????? Just asking. And how about if it is one of the AC's while the HC stays in the dugout. He gets a freebie every game also???

Replacematt

Replacematt

Posted
Posted

 

I would not rule this verbal INT. The offense is trying to get a cheap run by doing one of 3 things: make the pitcher balk, fool the umpire into calling a balk, or run their double steal play.

 

You can thwart all 3 by calling time, putting the runners back, and warning the coach that the next outburst will result in his ejection.

 

I will also say that, if the coach's shout had caused F1 to balk, you should kill it, ignore the balk, and reset.

I like Maven's thought here.

Yes, the rules give us the ability to eject in this situation and you would be well within your rights, but you have more tools in your arsenal than the EJ. There are times we need to exercise our game management techniques and not default to the EJ. I feel that this is one of them.

 

 

Yes, we have more tools than the EJ, but sometimes it's not a matter of the problem looking like a nail; it is a nail.

charliej47

charliej47

Posted
Posted

:hopmad: Since F1 had started to play on a runner, I would call Interference, eject the coach and call the closest runner to home out.  I would also be prepared to explain the call to the HC and then dump him if necessary! :fuel:

afaber12

afaber12

Posted
Posted

Did F1 actually start some sort of move to either of the runners before stopping at the coach's outburst, or did he just step off as though he wasn't quite feeling right, settled, whatever? Being a simple Australian umpire, so I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of NFHS rules and don't know if verbal interference would apply here or not, but if there's no play being made, then I would've thought there's no play to interfere with and therefore no interference.

PGOLDEN88

PGOLDEN88

Posted
Posted

The 3b coach does this in every game. Does he get 20 or however many games they play warnings for this obvious intentional act per year, just working (isn't that some hoops announcers term) the umpires every game. So he gets 20-30 freebies just like he could get 20+ restrictions every year for every game played for the exact same offense????? Just asking. And how about if it is one of the AC's while the HC stays in the dugout. He gets a freebie every game also???

Run him out. No need to give him another warning if you already warned him earlier in the season. Just my two cents.

 

Didn't Alex Rodriguez do this a few years ago? Couldn't find a penalty in OBR.

lilleaguer

lilleaguer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Didn't Alex Rodriguez do this a few years ago? Couldn't find a penalty in OBR.

A-Rod yelled "I got it!" or something similar to a Blue Jays 3rd baseman in a 2007 game, causing a pop-up to be dropped.

 

I believe his penalty was getting plunked in the leg the next series with the Blue Jays. You won't find that penalty in the written rules.

Edited by lilleaguer
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