World Series: On the exchange? Yes? No.

[basejester]

Demuth calls out ruling the ball dropped on the exchange.

Red Sox argue. Crew gets together and votes, apparently. Changes the call to safe.

They got the call right in the end. What do you think?

[Texas Manny]

That is an excellent example of how it is supposed to work according to the rules. That scenario is the prime example to quote against IR.

[Haid D' Salaami]

there was no need to get together... holy cow.. that wasnt even close...

[krwill96]

Correct call after the meeting. I think demuth just rushed it and missed it. It was good to see them get together but hated hearing them say the umpire is going to overrule him. This is where the coaches we deal with get the idea that one ump can over rule another.

[ump570]

It amazes me when things like this happen. I see these guys make amazing calls all year, and then they kick an easy one. A few nights ago, it happened to me. I'm in C, F4 bobbles ground ball and then makes a crappy throw to first that skips to the F3. I settle in, watch the F3 take the throw, and for some reason I thought the throw beat the runner, and I call him out. As soon as I made the call, I realized I got it wrong. The crowd went nuts, and the coaches let me have it too. I think I lost perspective of when the ball got to F3's mitt when it skipped, and I thought it got there sooner than it did. From C, I didn't have the benefit of using sounds of glove and bag. I went to my partner later and asked him if I missed and he told me the kid was safe. What can you do though? It's just umpiring.

[ricka56]

I can already hear it, the next time coach comes out on a fishing expedition wanting me to see if my partner can talk me into a call that favors him..."WS umpires aren't afraid to ask, are you better than them?" ...my trigger finger is already itchy.

[Mr Umpire]

I can already hear it, the next time coach comes out on a fishing expedition wanting me to see if my partner can talk me into a call that favors him..."WS umpires aren't afraid to ask, are you better than them?" ...my trigger finger is already itchy.

Answer: Yep.

[ump570]

Correct call after the meeting. I think demuth just rushed it and missed it. It was good to see them get together but hated hearing them say the umpire is going to overrule him. This is where the coaches we deal with get the idea that one ump can over rule another.

I noticed that too. Why did Metheny not argue with DeMuth? Is it now the crew chiefs job to handle it?

[conbo61]

I can already hear it, the next time coach comes out on a fishing expedition wanting me to see if my partner can talk me into a call that favors him..."WS umpires aren't afraid to ask, are you better than them?" ...my trigger finger is already itchy.

 

"Just for today I am..."

[Richvee]

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove. 

[basejester]

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove.

Is he too close? It's a little weird to run away from a play, but surely we want to have both in view.

[scrounge]

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove. 

 

Exactly....I don't know if he rushed it or just assumed that it had to be on the exchange or what, but I think the ball being out caught him totally by surprise and he just reacted or something. Never saw the ball-glove at all.

[Richvee]

 

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove.

Is he too close? It's a little weird to run away from a play, but surely we want to have both in view.

 

I don't know..Maybe.  But you'll see what I mean when you see it..Almost looks like tunnel vision. His head is fixed on the bag. You can see it plain as day he never saw the catch. 

[Jimurray]

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove.

Is he too close? It's a little weird to run away from a play, but surely we want to have both in view.

I don't know..Maybe. But you'll see what I mean when you see it..Almost looks like tunnel vision. His head is fixed on the bag. You can see it plain as day he never saw the catch.

His head was fixed on the bag because we have been ragging them about the " neighborhood play". Or maybe somebody else more important that us was.

So when he looked up the rule of thumb that the ball was not going directly down was applied to a transfer drop. The rule of thumb needs to be revisited.

[Richvee]

 

 

 

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove.

Is he too close? It's a little weird to run away from a play, but surely we want to have both in view. I don't know..Maybe. But you'll see what I mean when you see it..Almost looks like tunnel vision. His head is fixed on the bag. You can see it plain as day he never saw the catch. His head was fixed on the bag because we have been ragging them about the " neighborhood play". Or maybe somebody else more important that us was.

So when he looked up the rule of thumb that the ball was not going directly down was applied to a transfer drop. The rule of thumb needs to be revisited.

 

Good point. I'd bet Torre or someone had something to say to this crew about the neighborhood play around 2nd after what we saw in the LCS. 

[basejester]

To judge a pulled foot, you have to see both the ball and the bag. It doesn't make sense to miss the catch because he's watching for the neighborhood play.

[bam]

THat's a ball that's caught by a MLB player 100 times out of 100.  He saw the play and the relay, then looked to the bag, never thinking that a professional would drop that.  I think there's something to the notion that this crew has been put on notice about neighborhood plays.

[Jimurray]

To judge a pulled foot, you have to see both the ball and the bag. It doesn't make sense to miss the catch because he's watching for the neighborhood play.

He might have overcompensated for the neighborhood play and was late to look up for the ball. You can't see both touches at once.

[umpstu]

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove. 

I thought the same thing and the ball was going in a direction that it normally would on an exchange. Thought he did his job correctly.

[ricka56]

It seems like such a cop out to say that U2 missed the gloving because he was overly concerned with not allowing a neighborhood play. But I can't find another explanation. If umpires are being pulled to watch for this, that and the other "special" thing, it shouldn't be surprising if they forget to apply the basics. And I think it'd be a damn shame if the best umpires in the world are having to walk on eggshells because of IR BS.

 

So here, finally/painfully, is a good reason to not kick the "neighborhood play" to the curb. Umpires need to be "focused" on the gloving/transfer and give the benefit of the doubt on the base tag when the middle infielder is doing what he's supposed to be doing.

[Platejob29]

It's a shame that an umpire as good as Dana DeMuth missed a play like this but it just goes to show you that even the best still have the monkey jump on their back sometimes. It does show a lot though about how umpiring crews can work effectively together to get the call right. I don't know how many of you saw it but a little later in the broadcast they played the audio of Hirschbeck explaining the play and why the call was changed to Matheny but it was pure gold if you are an umpire nerd. Hirschbeck said "there were 5 of us that all saw the play happen and all had the ball being dropped" (or something to that effect. I can't remember exactly.) It's something we have all said before but it's just cool to hear the exact same explanation any of us would give had a similar play happened to our crew while we were on the field. 

[Thunderheads]

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=31172513&topic_id=vtp_must_c&query=umpires confer

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=31172019&topic_id=vtp_ws_sponsor&query=umpires confer

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=31172967&query=umpires confer

[Mr Umpire]

I wonder if he also got caught up in the notion of "If the ball goes down, it's on the transfer.  If it goes up, it came out on its own."  I hate that thought process and this play is exactly why.  He may have been fixed on the base and did not see the play.  But, if he thinks like that and did not see the play fully, then this is exactly why that thought process fails.

 

See the whole play and judge it.  Don't use some made up general explanations on how to call something.

[UmpJeff]

When the replay is available, watch DeMuth...He's head is fixed on the bag...He's not looking at the ball/glove catch/no catch at all. Seems to me by the time he sees what happened, the ball is already out of the glove. He had to call something, but I don't think he ever saw the ball meet the glove. 

I saw, and thought, the exact same thing.

[stl_ump]

 

So did Demuth ask for help on this or did someone go to him and tell him he blew it and had better fix it?