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JaxRolo

Arguing

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Most people on hear can write much more eloquently than myself. I suck at writing things down.On the field I will put myself against anyone on here and be just as good!(In my own mind)

 

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“We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen more than we say.â€

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I'm glad that someone started a thread for arguing. I've been itching to get into one for a long time. :wave:
Too late! You've already been arguing! :wave:

 

:hopmad: I am not arguing! ...ah, $#!+    I had tongue firmly in place when I wrote post 16. I know my humor is sometimes disguised (sometimes its funnier that way...sometimes not). If you can possibly find a humorous interpretation of my post, take it...you can usually tell when I'm not trying to make a joke...sometimes :wave:  

 

Not joking points I'd like to make.

1) Whether a poster is right/wrong anyone/everyone (perhaps the lurkers) might benefit from a discussion/thread.

2) If you won't beneifit from a particular discussion, you can probably find another activity to satisfy yourself. :jerkit:  

3) Whether you think a poster is being persuasive or arguing depends only on which side of the topic you are on.

 

1) True

3) I do not expect guys to take what I say, or the many others on here that have proven their knowledge says, as gospel but when enough of the senior guys say the same thing, we are usually right. 

I have no problem with being disagreed with, it has happened before and will happen again. Hell, I'm a scissor guy with a traditional mask and stock pads and I hate GD pants. I get argued with constantly.  :)   Young guys/newer guys, I always welcome and encourage to ask questions. Then they need to learn a subject, then when they think they understand it, ask questions about that. That reinforces their knowledge, or shows the flaw in their understanding. Some things are cut and dry, others are more open to interpretation or opinion.

All that said, I don't care how much we disagree, I do care about the tone of the disagreement.Argue the subject, not personality. If the person is arguing rediculously, report it to me or another Mod, we handle that. Consider us the game management.   

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“We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen more than we say.â€

but 10 fingers :wave:

 

and one d@#K! (sorry. couldnt resist - going for the laugh)

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Is there  any one of us that can't get better? Part of the fun of the game is picking up new stuff and trying tricks that someone else has learned through the school of hard knocks.

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“We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen more than we say.â€

but 10 fingers :wave:

 

and one d@#K! (sorry. couldnt resist - going for the laugh)

 

Some, not I, may argue that point, in of itself. old.gif

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“We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen more than we say.â€

but 10 fingers :wave:

 

and one d@#K! (sorry. couldnt resist - going for the laugh)

 

10 fingers...one d!@k ... the mod/editors are probably worried about the direction you're taking this thread. 

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Hell, I'm a scissor guy with a traditional mask and stock pads and I hate GD pants. I get argued with constantly. :)

At least I'm not the only one.

I can't tell you how many times I hear thing like:

"Scissor really? That's an out-dated stance."

"You really should buy TW pads, you're going to get a concussion."

"I really don't like GD pants either."

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and one d@#K! (sorry. couldnt resist - going for the laugh)

 

Some, not I, may argue that point, in of itself. old.gif

 

 If you were going to argue that point, that would make you Texas Manuela.

 

If I was going to argue that point, it would be because I was the inspiration for this Raven's Coffee blend.

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Is there any one of us that can't get better? Part of the fun of the game is picking up new stuff and trying tricks that someone else has learned through the school of hard knocks.

Me. I'm #1.

 

You're full of #2.  ;)

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The only argument I have is....my rocket...jet fuel or radioactive fission...which is better, more cost effective, and has less emissions?

Cost effectiveness or environmental impact ...not and...choose one or the other, you can't have both...have you considered solid-fuel?

 

The only argument really worth discussing is pipes: Whitney Houston, Alicia Keys or my sentimental favorite Judy Garland.

 

 

 Norah Jones > anyone on that list.

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I've been meaning to weigh in on this...

 

One of the primary goals of Umpire-Empire is to help umpires. We are not all fortunate enough to have had excellent mentors, attend top tier camps or clinics, much less a 4-5 week pro school or even receive adequate local training. Do I think a forum is suitable for truly delivering training, absolutely not. But it is excellent for is sharing of ideas. 

 

This sharing of ideas is what will make you a better umpire. 

 

How???

 

On a forum like this you will be exposed to ideas you have either never heard of or run completely contrary to what you have been instructed or personally believe...and that is a good thing. It gets you thinking weather you accept it or not is a completely different thing. Nobody here is asking you to prostrate yourselves to anybody else based on their experience, post count or anything else.

 

I can personally say this site (as well as others before U-E) have helped me evolve as an umpire. Here's 3 quick examples...

  1. On a hit by pitch I use to exclaim "Dead Ball!" -- Now I use "Time!"
  2. I use to be an advocate of the FYC --- Not any more
  3. I've overturned a call by conferring with my partner to get additional info in the spirit of "getting the call right" that I probably wouldn't have a few years ago.

I'm sure some of you have similar stories. Nobody beat me into submission, but with what others have said, I changed my opinions.

 

As someone who now mentors new umpires, I tell every one of them not to take anything I say as the word of the Lord. All I ask is that you listen, be open minded and take what I tell you and what others tell you see what works for you. Ask questions. Don't settle for that's just the way it is. Because if you understand the why's as you develop you can better put the pieces of the puzzle together that will make you a better more complete umpire. 

 

I also tell them that if I tell you X and another umpire tells you Y don't completely dismiss either. While one of us may be completely wrong there may either be a nugget of truth in it or worse case scenario you give it enough thought that you can determine what is real and what is bunk. 

 

Here's some points I wanted to make on this thread...

 

Arguing--
There is a big difference between Arguing and Discussion-

  • I fully encourage discussion.
  • Arguing can be tolerated up until the point it gets personal. Friends argue from time to time and that's fine. Just remember agree or disagree we're on the same team here. We catch enough grief from ignorant fans and coaches, we don't need to catch any here from our comrades.  
  • I have noticed over the past few months a significant uptick to the number of "arguments" and I want to see that number drop back down.

Here are some suggestions:

  • Let things dye a natural death. Person A says ________, Person B says different. Unless you are adding something new, asking for clarification or clarifying your own statement let it go. Outright challenging another's statement puts things in an escalated state where an argument could ensue.
  • Re-read your posts before posting. I've confronted people about arguing here before and the #1 thing I'm told is that they didn't realize their comment would be taken in a certain way or intend for it to be taken the way it was. So re-read your post you may intend one meaning, but deliver another.
  • Plain text is awful for relaying tone. Consider using and emoticon/smilie to help convey tone or emotions.
  • Give others the benefit of the doubt that what they are saying is not a personal attack and don't react assuming it is a personal comment.
  • Use the ignore feature -  If there is another member you find you just prefer not to deal with add them to your ignore list.
    • Go to the top right corner and click your username --> Select "My Settings" --> Select " 'Ignore' Preferences" from the left hand column.
    • You will not see that user's posts, BUT you will see when a user you do not ignore quotes them.
  • Report objectionable content. The moderation team will review and take appropriate action as necessary.

​

Social Content

This is a social media site. I know others disagree that forums being true social media but IMO they are. I want this site to be a social media outlet for umpires to laugh, cry and overall share with one another - EVEN IF the content isn't related to umpiring. The only limitations to what I place on content are pornography, hate, drug, violence AND political postings. The others are pretty self explanatory, but politics is not in the scope of this forum and brings out such visceral reactions in people. It quickly becomes a moderating nightmare and nothing anybody posts about any politician or political party is going to change anybody else.

 

But as a social outlet I we develop friendships even if we never meet in real life. I've been fortunate to have met more than a few members her and a few have become what I consider true friends. I can only hope the same is true for others. 

 

Going even further, as friends, we shouldn't be afraid to or get overly offended by busting each others chops every once in a while. Just friendly locker room/ frat house type antics. 

 

Members

Different people utilize the site in different ways. While the stats at the bottom of the page show we get between 150- 200 member visits a day, the site averages about 2000 unique visitors a day in the peak of the spring season and has a secondary peak around the World Series and stabilizes at about 1200-1500 unique visitors a day otherwise.

 

We have members from all walks of life. Young Little League volunteer umpires, mid level umpires in HS, College ... , seasoned umpires and even professional umpires. 

 

Some members are very active and rack up high post counts - and that's fine. 

Others don't post too often but have a very high like count - and that's fine.

Still others post little to never post, but visit regularly and that is fine too.

 

When it comes to reading posts from others here, this is what I recommend.

  • If you are new, get to know the other members a bit. If you visit regularly you can get a sense of their personality, style and ways they come to decisions, handle situations and more.
  • Never take anything posted here as the word of the Lord. Anybody can post here and say virtually anything no matter how ridiculous or true.
  • Remember umpiring is filled with gray areas. If it weren't for this there would be no need for interpretation manuals or even this site. There are situations in umpiring where there is technically no right answer, but possibly better ways to come to a decision about handling those gray areas. 
  • If you ask a question, be ready for responses, correct, incorrect, sarcastic ... It is often actually the weeding through all of the responses that actually help the most in deciphering and truly understanding the correct answer. 
  • Don't be looking to be offended. If you are looking to be offended, you will find it.

When it comes to replying to others here's what I recommend

  • Try to consider what you may know about the poster; their age, experience level, their online personality, and how they typically respond use this information to respond/not respond appropriately.
  • Use emoticons/smilies to convey emotion since plain text can not do this.
  • When practical while replying try to cite a source or give a little of the why behind what you are saying.
  • If you feel the poster is "trolling" don't feed the troll. Report the post and let the moderators handle it rather than giving the person what they may want.
  • If a topic has been covered ad nauseam, be kind give a brief answer and then direct the user to where it may have been covered. Please don't give the curt answer of it's been covered, use the search feature. Remember different people have different competency levels in using this site and the internet as a whole.
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I guess we can close this one. Good job, as always, Warren! Larry Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

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@Umpire in Chief --- Absolutely great post!  And, a great website, of course!  I enjoy coming here almost every day.  I appreciate your work and the work of the mods in maintaining the high quality of the forum, and the relatively courteous, informative, mature exchanges.

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I have learned a great deal more than I could ever return here. That said, UIC forgot Volunteer, Seasoned Little League Umpires.  27 years and going strong.

I actually enjoy the ballbusting and commraderie. It makes it more real.  When I was at the LL Western Championships the umpires were walking in procession from the right field entrance to the dugouts. I yelled "Don't Suck!, from the stands.  They all smiled. They new it was love I was sending.

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@Umpire in Chief --- great post. I have been on UE for a short time and I have picked up a great deal of useful info that I have used in games. There are some fellow umps who share their thoughts on topics, but you do get a few "Jackwagons" who think they know it all, hope these people are in the minority compared to the majority who give useful tips and info. Keep up the good work monitoring this site.

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Is there  any one of us that can't get better? Part of the fun of the game is picking up new stuff and trying tricks that someone else has learned through the school of hard knocks.

 

Did you intentionally use the smallest font possible just to see how many blind umpires there actually are?   Talk about being argumentative from the start! :sarcasm:  Geeez- what a moose antler.

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Many of you have more posts in a day than I do in 5 years. As a long time lurker and rare poster the arguing for the sake of arguing is a turn off.

 

I get to a thread which may be interesting and then we get to the BS and I stop reading. I could be missing out on some great info, but once I get to 3-4 posts of garbage I check out.

 

Police yourselves. Don't get overly excited with each other.

 

I don't know if everybody realizes how great of a resource this place is and I'd hate to see the usefulness of this site go away.

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Many of you have more posts in a day than I do in 5 years. As a long time lurker and rare poster the arguing for the sake of arguing is a turn off.

 

I get to a thread which may be interesting and then we get to the BS and I stop reading. I could be missing out on some great info, but once I get to 3-4 posts of garbage I check out.

 

Police yourselves. Don't get overly excited with each other.

 

I don't know if everybody realizes how great of a resource this place is and I'd hate to see the usefulness of this site go away.

I think this is a great point.  I don't know how you could do it and it would probably take too long, but have a moderator go in once a day and delete some of the bull crap in some of these threads that don't pertain to the actual topic.  For those who are starting out and trying to gain valuable insight it is a turn off to see a topic of obstruction turn into was his jacket tucked or not tucked.  I know there have been times when I've read a thread and was going to give my take, but as I read on the posts have turned in a different direction and I just say screw it and move on.

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My pet peeve: those that believe if someone can say something with one word, when he could have used ten, then the "one word" guy wasn't trying. ...I get lost on the TL-DR posts.

 

Maybe MST could find time to edit the 1000+ word posts down to 50. :wave:

 

49 words, counting the emoticon

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Who is wearing a jacket tucked in?!?!

 

Must be a scissors guy!!!!

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I think a lot of arguing would stop if folks on here took the time to actually read what others write, rather than skim for the key words, and ask questions, before just making blanket assumptions, and stop trying to piece quotes from multiple posts together to prove your point.

 

It would also help if folks had a learning attitude rather than an I know better type.

 

Yes, these words cut me first, and I am working very diligently to listen, process, and not make blanket assumptions.

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