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I do vary my game management style based on the level of play...doesn't everyone. I specifically said that this approach was for Kiddie/tournament ball. I wouldn't recommend this approach for HS BB or above (I work up to varsity HS ball). If I hear things at a HS game, it usually amuse me, I guess I've thick enough skin for that kind of game, because usually I don't even hear stuff.

 

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way for 1:45 at some U12 game (or whatever stupid crap comes out). I'm just not going to do it. It has been discussed at the facility that I work, where we seem to have clientele that appreciate no tolerance for adults that feel the need be a part of the game. The games are much more enjoyable (and no less competitive) when parents aren't trying to work the ump. Bottom line: I still get assignments. :shrug:   YMMV 

Ricka56,

 

I don't know how old you are, but please take this with the understanding that I am sharing from my heart and long time experience, and my only motive is to help make you a better umpire. Learn the difference between good advice and wisdom, and that which you can discard. I feel that many here, including myself, have given you some great wisdom to keep your ears, mind, and heart out of the stands, and on the field. Parents will be parents. Spectators, spectators. All you will do is heap upon yourself more trouble in the end when you engage the fans either directly, or indirectly through the managers. They are not your concern, unless directly impacting the playing field.

 

Although kiddie parents can be ruthless, it won't get easier in adult games where spectators are usually larger in number, and their vocabulary and hearts have hardened. Learn now to get your attention on the field and not give a rats ass what the spectators say or think, and you'll become a better umpire. There is a right way and a wrong way to address continual kiddie spectator issue, and that is through the chain of command with your association representatives. If the parents are that bad, then report it to those who have the authority to deal with it. Let them determine where the problem lays, investigate further, and deal with it accordingly, as other umpires may have had similar issues. Do not go after the parents or the leagues themselves, or you will eventually find that you are not welcome on their fields, within your umpiring association, or both, because you will have made life so difficult for others, they are not going to want you.

 

I only speak from experience because I've seen this happen over and over again. It is sad too because the umpire loses, the association loses, and the kids suffer because the umpiring may go another route, if the situation gets that bad.

 

Just my :2cents: at the current rate of inflation.

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I do vary my game management style based on the level of play...doesn't everyone. I specifically said that this approach was for Kiddie/tournament ball. I wouldn't recommend this approach for HS BB or above (I work up to varsity HS ball). If I hear things at a HS game, it usually amuse me, I guess I've thick enough skin for that kind of game, because usually I don't even hear stuff.

 

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way (or whatever stupid crap comes out) for 1:45 at some U12 game. I'm just not going to do it. It has been discussed at the facility that I work, where we seem to have clientele that appreciate no tolerance for adults that feel the need be a part of the game. The games are much more enjoyable (and no less competitive) when parents aren't trying to work the ump. Bottom line: I still get assignments. :shrug:   YMMV 

If you can't get out of the stands, then don't take the assignments.  You will run into the 1 spectator who goes too far with it.  You will be the one they have in their sights.  You will be putting you and your partner(s) in danger.  And, for what, b/c you "will be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way for 1:45 at some U12 game." 

 

Think about your innocent partner before you go running your mouth to a spectator or coach who you send as the lamb to be slaughtered.  The coach will throw you under the bus.  He is not taking the bullet for you at all.

 

This kind of stuff may happen when you start engaging with anyone but the HC (and even he may lose it if you get into this kind of confrontation):

 

You are not dealing with professionals.

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Now you've had someone say it nicely to you and another bluntly. We're only trying to help make you a better umpire. Learn from experience. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not learn something, even if it is from Jock-O.

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If you can't get out of the stands, then don't take the assignments. 

I have no idea what that sentence means. And I'm pretty sure you don't know what I mean. Somewhere on the parental behavior spectrum between a mild disappointment about a close call and cuss filled/threatening tirade, I'll bet that there is a place on that spectrum where even you will not continue a game until the problem is gone. If you agree, then we are only talking about the degree of misbehavior to be tolerated. Maybe the tolerance level where we (I'm not the only one) work is less than yours, but you've got a tolerance threshold too.

 

It comes down to what is expected of you at the place you work. If your TD expects you to take that abuse to keep the cash registers ringing, you have to take the abuse or "don't take the assignment". Here, it is not expected that we take abuse, so we don't put up with it. If it wasn't that way, I wouldn't get any assignments.

 

BTW, our TD often receives compliments about the way we handle "problems" by civilized coaches/parents...cha-ching.

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If you can't get out of the stands, then don't take the assignments. 

I have no idea what that sentence means. 

 

 

It means that if you cannot work a game without worrying about what is said in the stands, then you should consider a part-time gig at Walmart.

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If you can't get out of the stands, then don't take the assignments. 

I have no idea what that sentence means. And I'm pretty sure you don't know what I mean. Somewhere on the parental behavior spectrum between a mild disappointment about a close call and cuss filled/threatening tirade, I'll bet that there is a place on that spectrum where even you will not continue a game until the problem is gone. If you agree, then we are only talking about the degree of misbehavior to be tolerated. Maybe the tolerance level where we (I'm not the only one) work is less than yours, but you've got a tolerance threshold too.

 

It comes down to what is expected of you at the place you work. If your TD expects you to take that abuse to keep the cash registers ringing, you have to take the abuse or "don't take the assignment". Here, it is not expected that we take abuse, so we don't put up with it. If it wasn't that way, I wouldn't get any assignments.

 

BTW, our TD often receives compliments about the way we handle "problems" by civilized coaches/parents...cha-ching.

 

Ok. If it ever happens, I will refrain from the "I told you so".  Also, I don't know what tolerance level I have with fans b/c I DO NOT HEAR THEM.    Once they get to that level, someone is going to jail or being escorted by a cop.  Until then, I know nothing of what they say. 

 

It has NOTHING to do with what TDs want.  I don't care what they want either.  I run the game as intended and by the rules given.  I have no jurisdiction over the fans unless they interfere in the game.  But, I do have it over participant safety including umpires.  You, on the other hand, do not seem to have that same consideration.

 

Please do not ever come on here with a story similar to what you have been warned against.  It is not one from which we care to hear about like this one: http://www.myfoxal.com/story/18244591/grandfather-arrested-for-allegedly-punching-umpire  And let's hope nothing like this one: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/man-pleads-guilty-to-hitting-pirie-footy-umpire/story-e6frea83-1226588405155

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Now you've had someone say it nicely to you and another bluntly. We're only trying to help make you a better umpire. Learn from experience. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not learn something, even if it is from Jock-O.

I've learned something today from this thread.  That's for sure.

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You can bring up all of the violent/worse case episodes that you want. Even if a sports official does everything by the book, you will still have these bad actors and these kind of headlines. When things go bad, you can most always look back and see where the sports officials may have made matters worse. One of the mistakes that sports officials commonly make is that they don't nip a problem in the bud and allow it to spin out of control.

 

You may think my approach might cause a problem, I think allowing disruptive behavior to continue might cause a problem.  Game management is the most important aspect of our job. Each game is different and we deal with what comes our way. @Mr Umpire , I wil not lose a minute of sleep if you think my game management (which you really have no idea of) doesn't agree with yours. And I will also try to refrain from saying I told you so if your game goes south because you didn't nip it in the bud.   

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We all have roles to play in officiating a game. Umpires administrate the game, which includes rules and game participants. That means generally the confines of the field, but can extend to pressbox. The coaches administer their teams and other coaches. Game administrators handle what happens outside the fence. The three entities interact but rarely do responsibilities overlap. That means you handle inside the fence, leave the outside alone. If fans get to a point where they disrupting the game, put the kids in the dugout until the admin handles the problem.  I have seen umpires go outside the fence, both successfully and unsuccessfully. I personally have filled all three roles so I have a better insight than someone who has only umpired. 

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That's fine when game management is present. What do you recommend for umpires assigned remote fields to work where there is no game management presence? Sometimes we use off-site fields when we have a big tournament or the field is in a remote area (no game management present). If games don't have game management present, then we are down to two entities, umpires/coaches. Who delivers/enforces the bad news to the bad actor then?

 

What about cell phones? I was taught that we don't bring a cell phone with us onto the field, but if we're in a remote area, without game management in earshot, does anyone think that cell phones should be carried?

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Nowadays I believe it is prudent to have a cell phone in your pocket. To many crazy things can happen. Just don't bring it out unless you have to.

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Or get someone from the other team to do so.  Just ask the coach.  He can find one.  Let an objective one intervene (cop).  Let the offender redirect their anger towards the cops.  They are prepared to deal with what may occur.  And, if it gets out of hand for the cop, they have access to call 100 more of them.  You are outnumbered if the crowd agrees with this one idiot.  Just look at the football video I posted.  And, there are many more to be found if you want me to search.

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That's fine when game management is present. What do you recommend for umpires assigned remote fields to work where there is no game management presence? Sometimes we use off-site fields when we have a big tournament or the field is in a remote area (no game management present). If games don't have game management present, then we are down to two entities, umpires/coaches. Who delivers/enforces the bad news to the bad actor then?

 

What about cell phones? I was taught that we don't bring a cell phone with us onto the field, but if we're in a remote area, without game management in earshot, does anyone think that cell phones should be carried?

That's a good point, sometimes you are out in the cold on your own. To be honest, it shouldn't happen, it doesn't in my area. If they use a remote field, then that field gets it's own site manager. He handles the teams,scores, fans and doing the field. We use two umpires on everything, and generally have an umpire supervisor at all sites. If you are in a remote area, or a site manager that isn't readily accessible, certainly carry a cell phone, just keep it in your pocket. That way you have it if you have a crowd situation,a rules problem, or an injury.  

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I do vary my game management style based on the level of play...doesn't everyone. I specifically said that this approach was for Kiddie/tournament ball. I wouldn't recommend this approach for HS BB or above (I work up to varsity HS ball). If I hear things at a HS game, it usually amuse me, I guess I've thick enough skin for that kind of game, because usually I don't even hear stuff.

 

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way (or whatever stupid crap comes out) for 1:45 at some U12 game. I'm just not going to do it. It has been discussed at the facility that I work, where we seem to have clientele that appreciate no tolerance for adults that feel the need be a part of the game. The games are much more enjoyable (and no less competitive) when parents aren't trying to work the ump. Bottom line: I still get assignments. :shrug:   YMMV 

If you can't get out of the stands, then don't take the assignments.  You will run into the 1 spectator who goes too far with it.  You will be the one they have in their sights.  You will be putting you and your partner(s) in danger.  And, for what, b/c you "will be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way for 1:45 at some U12 game." 

 

Think about your innocent partner before you go running your mouth to a spectator or coach who you send as the lamb to be slaughtered.  The coach will throw you under the bus.  He is not taking the bullet for you at all.

 

This kind of stuff may happen when you start engaging with anyone but the HC (and even he may lose it if you get into this kind of confrontation):

 

You are not dealing with professionals.

 

I agree with what you're saying about staying out of the stands. It's best to ignore it. But I hope you're not implying with the 3 examples you showed that it's the umpires to blam that they are assaulted by crazy parents, coaches. I ignore the fans; however, I have been followed to my car and felt threatened more than once by crazy parents.

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I do vary my game management style based on the level of play...doesn't everyone. I specifically said that this approach was for Kiddie/tournament ball. I wouldn't recommend this approach for HS BB or above (I work up to varsity HS ball). If I hear things at a HS game, it usually amuse me, I guess I've thick enough skin for that kind of game, because usually I don't even hear stuff.

 

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way (or whatever stupid crap comes out) for 1:45 at some U12 game. I'm just not going to do it. It has been discussed at the facility that I work, where we seem to have clientele that appreciate no tolerance for adults that feel the need be a part of the game. The games are much more enjoyable (and no less competitive) when parents aren't trying to work the ump. Bottom line: I still get assignments. :shrug:   YMMV 

 however, I have been followed to my car and felt threatened more than once by crazy parents.

 

Maybe if you were a better Umpire this wouldn't happen!!!   :wave:  :fuel:

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I do vary my game management style based on the level of play...doesn't everyone. I specifically said that this approach was for Kiddie/tournament ball. I wouldn't recommend this approach for HS BB or above (I work up to varsity HS ball). If I hear things at a HS game, it usually amuse me, I guess I've thick enough skin for that kind of game, because usually I don't even hear stuff.

 

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way (or whatever stupid crap comes out) for 1:45 at some U12 game. I'm just not going to do it. It has been discussed at the facility that I work, where we seem to have clientele that appreciate no tolerance for adults that feel the need be a part of the game. The games are much more enjoyable (and no less competitive) when parents aren't trying to work the ump. Bottom line: I still get assignments. :shrug:   YMMV 

If you can't get out of the stands, then don't take the assignments.  You will run into the 1 spectator who goes too far with it.  You will be the one they have in their sights.  You will be putting you and your partner(s) in danger.  And, for what, b/c you "will be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way for 1:45 at some U12 game." 

 

Think about your innocent partner before you go running your mouth to a spectator or coach who you send as the lamb to be slaughtered.  The coach will throw you under the bus.  He is not taking the bullet for you at all.

 

This kind of stuff may happen when you start engaging with anyone but the HC (and even he may lose it if you get into this kind of confrontation):

 

You are not dealing with professionals.

 

I agree with what you're saying about staying out of the stands. It's best to ignore it. But I hope you're not implying with the 3 examples you showed that it's the umpires to blam that they are assaulted by crazy parents, coaches. I ignore the fans; however, I have been followed to my car and felt threatened more than once by crazy parents.

 

Nothing was mentioned nor implied.  The reason for these are the results of dealing with fans.  Whether it be just in presence or actually confronting one to any degree, this can occur.  By confronting one in any way makes the situation more likely to escalate.

 

Walking away or ignoring it won't get rid of all of it. But, doing so reduces the chances of something like this occurring dramatically.  I have heard umpires talk about their issue with someone which escalated after confrontation.  Whereas, I have had that same team and it did not b/c I chose not to confront them since it didn't need to be done.  Every situation is different and things happen. But, why do something which raises the chances of an incident like this to happen?

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Every situation is different and things happen. But, why do something which raises the chances of an incident like this to happen?

 

The converse to that question is why do nothing and allow them to think that bad behavior is acceptable ...that could lead to an escalation too. It would be better to deal with a problem early then to wait for it to get out of control. Problem is you never know...Every situation is different.

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If it's from the stands and all that was said was "that's two" then I usually call time and have a little chat with the head coach and let him know he is responsible from sportsmanship on both sides of the fence and that his fans better not count to 3. If anything else was said that was more personal to go with the original "that's two" comment if it's bad enough I may just eject the offender and get it over with, even if it is a spectator I don't discriminate.

 

Really? You don't think a fan has the right to say "That's two blue...you stink?" You're stopping a game and having a coach remove a parent for that??

No a fan does not have the right to say that in a kid ball game. The game is about the kids and teaching them that poor sportsmanship is ok is not something that we should take lightly. I don't give in to the philosophy that a spectator has the right to say anything let alone something that sets a bad example for kids. 

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i dont agree..but i still like you!
Awww! How sweet!

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Every situation is different and things happen. But, why do something which raises the chances of an incident like this to happen?

 

The converse to that question is why do nothing and allow them to think that bad behavior is acceptable ...that could lead to an escalation too. It would be better to deal with a problem early then to wait for it to get out of control. Problem is you never know...Every situation is different.

 

Not going this route again.  Refer to the arguing thread.  I've said what I need to from experience and hearing other stories of how quick things turn when engaging the fans.  Do what you want, when you want to.  Just make sure it is not with me on the field.  I want to get home without having to help my partner get to his feet.

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I do vary my game management style based on the level of play...doesn't everyone. I specifically said that this approach was for Kiddie/tournament ball. I wouldn't recommend this approach for HS BB or above (I work up to varsity HS ball). If I hear things at a HS game, it usually amuse me, I guess I've thick enough skin for that kind of game, because usually I don't even hear stuff.

 

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let some know-nothing daddy count the number of semi-close calls that don't go his way (or whatever stupid crap comes out) for 1:45 at some U12 game. I'm just not going to do it. It has been discussed at the facility that I work, where we seem to have clientele that appreciate no tolerance for adults that feel the need be a part of the game. The games are much more enjoyable (and no less competitive) when parents aren't trying to work the ump. Bottom line: I still get assignments. :shrug:   YMMV 

 however, I have been followed to my car and felt threatened more than once by crazy parents.

 

Maybe if you were a better Umpire this wouldn't happen!!!   :wave:  :fuel:

 

Maybe he should read the AR-15 thread :FIRE:

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Quote by Ricka:

 

The converse to that question is why do nothing and allow them to think that bad behavior is acceptable ...that could lead to an escalation too. It would be better to deal with a problem early then to wait for it to get out of control. Problem is you never know...Every situation is different.

 

We aren't saying that bad behavior is acceptable, what we are saying is most of the time it should be a game management issue. Have I addressed fans, sure, but it definitely the exception not the rule. 

 

Quote by Platejob29:

 

 

No a fan does not have the right to say that in a kid ball game. The game is about the kids and teaching them that poor sportsmanship is ok is not something that we should take lightly. I don't give in to the philosophy that a spectator has the right to say anything let alone something that sets a bad example for kids. 

 

Agree 100% that fans regularly say things at youth games they have no business saying. Fans do not have the right to say whatever they want, they get away with at pro games but in youth games it should be addressed. The thing is it should be addressed by game management, not us. I'm not saying we shouldn't alert game management to the issue, we certainly should. 

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I've only had one time when I had to take action because of a spectator (parent). This was back in the early 80's. I was calling a LL Senior League game, not at a facility, but at a ball field in the middle of nowhere. no dugouts, just wooden benches and the only fencing was a backstop and the outfield from foul line to foul line. Spectators, for the most part, brought lawn chars (no bleachers) and sat in DBT parallel to the foul lines. There was no administration present, no league board members or anything else. Just players, coaches, umpires (2) and spectators.

 

The kids would get in the batter's box and "dig in" with their cleats. By the third inning, the batters box would be 1-2 inches lower than the playing field... meaning the strike zone was a little lower because their knees were lower.

 

Anyhow, this one kid's dad would sit in in DBT out near the left field foul pole and holler about every pitch that would come in at knee height being low. Me and the other guys that called games for this league simply would ignore him.

 

Then one day, this guy decided that he didn't want to be ignored any more, so he brought an electronic bull-horn with him, sat in his usual spot and did his usual bitching about low pitches. It happened that I had the plate that day.  There comes a time when enough is enough, and the bull-horn was actually more than enough.  I stopped play, sent both teams to their benches, and told the manager of the team that this guy belonged to, that we are done playing until the guy with the bull-horn leaves.

 

Best part is, that when that knucklehead left, every person at the ball field, players, coaches and spectators alike, all cheered his departure.,

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