Out at second? No control? or Off the bag

[Thunderheads]

Regardless of  the 'off the bag' mechanic ..........

 

What say you here?

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=29720563&topic_id=0

[johnnyg08]

tough, tough call.  

 

I didn't see it live, but there's more of a bobble there than an off the bag.  

[Thunderheads]

tough, tough call.  

 

I didn't see it live, but there's more of a bobble there than an off the bag.  

I couldn't agree with you more here!!  A LOT going on really quickly!

[LMSANS]

He was off the bag when he got control...he was bobbling.  Upon further review...SAFE!

[scrounge]

I've seen far more egregious plays called out....I'd have called the out.

[noumpere]

I don't think he was really moving to make a normal play as much as he was stretching to get the ball so that makes the umpire look and he gets less of a neighbourhood to make the play.

[Umpire in Chief]

Tough call, but I believe it is correct. He is of the bag by the time he gains control of the ball.

 

Is that what is going through Eddings's mind, who knows. 

 

I love how the announcer tries to paint Eddings as evil, "It's Doug Eddings again"

 

Then has to try and save face once he sees the bobble, "His foot is on the bag. He's out; it's not even close. He didn't have the ball though, he kinda bobbled the ball a little bit. He's saying he's off the bag, that's the wrong part." 

[afaber12]

First view, at live speed, I was sure it was out.

 

With the benefit of slow-mo, I think the ball was caught, then adjusted for a better grip to throw, then thrown: also/still out. The same way if the ball spills out as the pivot's transferring from glove to bare hand. I absolutely get why it might look like a bobble in real time, and therefore why it might get the safe call, but there's nothing that says "voluntary release" requires that the ball is released to a different hand or player for it to count as voluntary. I also think he's got control up until the release to fix his grip. Are we going to say that a catch doesn't count because its not held by enough of the hand? Snow-cones are no longer good enough?

 

Ignoring my own interpretation of this play above, assuming a situation where on an attempted force play, the ball touches the glove while the fielder is on the bag, but doesn't have control of the ball until after he comes off the bag, all of which happens before the runner touches the bag, apart from calling "safe", is the proper mechanic "off the bag", "bobbled the ball", or would either be appropriate?

 

Perhaps a combo, like "bobbled the bag" or "off the ball"?

[RichMSN]

It's a correct call.  He was off the bag when he established control.  Either a bobble mechanic or an off the bag mechanic is fine here.  

 

Any criticism of the mechanic is just picking nits.

[GetItRight]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

[FlaUmp22]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

 

someone is an A's fan!!!

[BRUMP]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

Just a BRUTAL call. And don't even start with that bobble crap. No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

Horrifically bad call. Just terrible.

Seriously?

[UMP45]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

FANBOY!!

[afaber12]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

 

On the same play the batter-runner was out by at least two steps, with no question mark on whether the first baseman was on or off the base, or when if ever he had control of the ball. That out was more obvious than the disputed out/safe at second base.

 

If you want to argue that it happened after the disputed play, and that you meant it was the most obvious out in the history of baseball at the time, I put to you that there have been innumerable plays similar to the out at first on this play in baseball's history. I would also suggest that the majority of fly ball outs, and strike outs where the batter has swung and missed at all three strikes, are all more obvious than this out.

[GetItRight]

Seriously boys.

 

Not even a sainted MLB umpire can tell/call/or even care that that's a bobble at live speed, as evidenced by this one calling "off the bag", which clearly the fielder was not, when all he would have to do to get this call "possibly" correct is to call it a bobble.  He didn't, because it wasn't, and/or he didn't care, which he shouldn't have.

 

If that's a bobble, then the Jim Joyce call in the Gallaraga game was correct, because 1B snowconed the ball, and thus didn't have control.  You need a looser definition here.

 

Horrible call.  And I have no rooting interest here whatsoever, other than a detest of bad umpiring.

[afaber12]

I'm thinking not so much "fanboy" as "manager".

[BRUMP]

Seriously boys.

Not even a sainted MLB umpire can tell/call/or even care that that's a bobble at live speed, as evidenced by this one calling "off the bag", which clearly the fielder was not, when all he would have to do to get this call "possibly" correct is to call it a bobble. He didn't, because it wasn't, and/or he didn't care, which he shouldn't have.

If that's a bobble, then the Jim Joyce call in the Gallaraga game was correct, because 1B snowconed the ball, and thus didn't have control. You need a looser definition here.

Horrible call. And I have no rooting interest here whatsoever, other than a detest of bad umpiring.

He called off the base because the fielder gained possession of the ball of the base. As for the rest of your post its not worth responding.

[scrounge]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

 

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

 

FANBOY ALERT, FANBOY ALERT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.

[UMP45]

Seriously boys.

 

Not even a sainted MLB umpire can tell/call/or even care that that's a bobble at live speed, as evidenced by this one calling "off the bag", which clearly the fielder was not, when all he would have to do to get this call "possibly" correct is to call it a bobble.  He didn't, because it wasn't, and/or he didn't care, which he shouldn't have.

 

If that's a bobble, then the Jim Joyce call in the Gallaraga game was correct, because 1B snowconed the ball, and thus didn't have control.  You need a looser definition here.

 

Horrible call.  And I have no rooting interest here whatsoever, other than a detest of bad umpiring.

Grab your beer and get back in your laz-boy!

[johnnyg08]

That is the most obvious out in the history of baseball.

 

Just a BRUTAL call.  And don't even start with that bobble crap.  No way in hell any human being is going to see that with the naked eye, ESPECIALLY if they are focused on what they should be here, which is the foot CLEARLY on the bag (further proof that the umpire was not looking at, nor did he notice, the extremely slight bobble which barely perceptible even on slo-mo replay).

 

Horrifically bad call.  Just terrible.

Homer or troll.

[BRUMP]

Time to stop feeding the trolls.