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From listening to the fans, that pitcher either hit the 2 batters before this one, or hit the same batter in 3 consecutive at-bats.

 

The coaches and players need to not engage the fans - nothing good can come of it.

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

 

Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire.

 

the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejection

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

 

Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire.

 

the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejection

 

What ??? In what rule book do you find that, and where ?

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire. the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejectionI beg to differ. The ONLY time you have cause to eject F1 is:

1. After warning is issued

2. If you know that you know that you know he threw at him on purpose.

An accidntal HBP is just that. Regardless of where it hits him.

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

 

Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire.

 

the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejection

 

What ??? In what rule book do you find that, and where ?

(d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.

If, in the umpires judgment, such a violation occurs, the umpire may elect either to:

1. Expel the pitcher, or the manager and the pitcher, from the game, or

2. may warn the pitcher and the manager of both teams that another such pitch will result in the immediate expulsion of that pitcher (or a replacement) and the manager.

If, in the umpires judgment, circumstances warrant, both teams may be officially warned prior to the game or at any time during the game.

(League Presidents may take additional action under authority provided in Rule 9.05.)

Rule 8.02(d) Comment: To pitch at a batters head is unsportsmanlike and highly dangerous. It should beand iscondemned by everybody. Umpires should act without hesitation in enforcement of this rule.

 

Now is still judgement decsion but its a safety cocern in my view yes it speaks about the batters head. I understand but these man have much more better control. Safety is my first cocern that does not mean i am going to throw someone out hitting a player in the head. In else there old enough to know what happen.

 

Throwing at batter is just as dangerous Getting hit on accident diffrent than purpose.

 

 

 

 

I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable.... Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire. the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejection I beg to differ. The ONLY time you have cause to eject F1 is:

1. After warning is issued

2. If you know that you know that you know he threw at him on purpose.

An accidntal HBP is just that. Regardless of where it hits him.

 

I disgree for the following rules safety cocern.

1. warning does not need to be issued it ususally is thuogh.

2.It does not matter if he did purprose or not.

 

the fact the batter was thrown at more than once indicates it was not an "accident"

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year. I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire. the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejection

What ??? In what rule book do you find that, and where ?(d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.If, in the umpires judgment, such a violation occurs, the umpire may elect either to:1. Expel the pitcher, or the manager and the pitcher, from the game, or2. may warn the pitcher and the manager of both teams that another such pitch will result in the immediate expulsion of that pitcher (or a replacement) and the manager.If, in the umpires judgment, circumstances warrant, both teams may be officially warned prior to the game or at any time during the game.(League Presidents may take additional action under authority provided in Rule 9.05.)Rule 8.02(d) Comment: To pitch at a batters head is unsportsmanlike and highly dangerous. It should beand iscondemned by everybody. Umpires should act without hesitation in enforcement of this rule. Now is still judgement decsion but its a safety cocern in my view yes it speaks about the batters head. I understand but these man have much more better control. Safety is my first cocern that does not mean i am going to throw someone out hitting a player in the head. In else there old enough to know what happen. Throwing at batter is just as dangerous Getting hit on accident diffrent than purpose.

I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year. I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....Just cause a ball hits a screen means nothing the fact he through behind the player is an issue and i wouldn't say he a kid. But there others rules in that to consider. 1. Safety you can eject someone over safety 2. you can removed pitcher if is too dangerous. 3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire. the fact he almost got hit three times is enough warrent an ejectionI beg to differ. The ONLY time you have cause to eject F1 is:1. After warning is issued2. If you know that you know that you know he threw at him on purpose.An accidntal HBP is just that. Regardless of where it hits him.

I disgree for the following rules safety cocern.1. warning does not need to be issued it ususally is thuogh.2.It does not matter if he did purprose or not. the fact the batter was thrown at more than once indicates it was not an "accident"missed your rule cite. But lets address it. 8.02 (d) is correct. But its speaking in terms of intent.

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Your field, your call. But if you start punting wild F1s, you better be calling high level quality teams. They all have control issues at youth parks. How many wild pitches have you seen that you DIDN'T think were an oops by the battery? In all my years, I've warned exactly once. And EJd exactly zero pitchers for bean balls.

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Umpiresoftball, here's a quote from you:

 

I disgree for the following rules safety cocern.

1. warning does not need to be issued it ususally is thuogh.

2.It does not matter if he did purprose or not.

 

the fact the batter was thrown at more than once indicates it was not an "accident"

 
 I would argue that it DOES matter whether the pitch was thrown on purpose. There is NO RULE SUPPORT FOR EJECTING A PITCHER WITH CONTROL ISSUES. Only a pitcher who "(d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.". Intent. look the word up. It is the key to this entire discussion.
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I had a pitcher that was having control issues. He was a pitcher that was either lights out or wild as a hare, no middle ground. That night was wild as a hare, if he put it in the zone they hit. He threw a pitch and struck the batter in the head. The batter's dad was the coach and he came screaming out of the dugout yelling he was head hunting. I shut him down by telling him,"Have you seen him pitch? He doesn't have enough control to hit him in the head on purpose. Now check your boy and be quiet."

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I hope never to see that in rec games but reading the article seem to be the umpires fail to do there jobs throwing the pitcher out from the two balls before. Both players shouldn't be playing baseball in college and i would of banned them from playing this year.  I am not saying there bad but it just seem they never had control of the game till afterwords.

 

Eject a pitcher because two of his pitches hit the screen ? I'm not sure there is a rule allowing that ejection. If the kid had control issues, that is not ejectable....

 

Pete, ask Davy Johnson and Strassburg about that theory. 

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Your field, your call. But if you start punting wild F1s, you better be calling high level quality teams. They all have control issues at youth parks. How many wild pitches have you seen that you DIDN'T think were an oops by the battery? In all my years, I've warned exactly once. And EJd exactly zero pitchers for bean balls.

Clearly they do this why i never said anything about youth. Its a safety issue. it does not have to have an attempt in the judgement of the rule.

 

I had plenty of balls hit batters in helmet i never gave warnings for the fact they "learning to play"

I have safety in back of my mind but that only if nesccisalrily... kids don't mean to hit someone at youth age there all friends.

 

Edit @ Pete- your more than welcome to disagree but i take safety seriously that the thing. safety is the most important thing to me than anything else.

 

the rule state its a judgement by the umpire rather it was or not. Safety issue is enough for someone to be thrown out.

 

remeber when joba kept throwing a youk head? he was thrown out for it... i am sure there was a warning even if he didn't mean the umpire made the correct call it was too dangerous.

 

mstyalor- That is a smart view of watching and paying attetion of game. I wouldn't of thrown the kid out he didn't have best control it happens,  I have never ever thrown anyone out for hitting someone in head at youth level. I would if i had to but that be more removing the pitcher than ejecting them if that was the case. I am just saying base of the dangerous of head hunting it does not need to be on purpose.
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All I will tell you is this, and take it as you will. If you were to eject a pitcher for control issues in any league I've been involved in, from LL to college games, you'd have your schedule pulled by the assignor. There is little tolerance in this area for officials making things up on their own, and hiding behind "safety" as their justification. The rules makers at the youth levels have put specific rules in place to cover what they consider to be safety rules for THEIR league. Please remember that it's not your league, and they're not your rules. You're there to adjudicate the rules of the game as they're written. If they wanted umpires to have the ability to toss pitchers who are having control issues, they would have written something into the rules specific to that situation.

Tim.

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All I will tell you is this, and take it as you will. If you were to eject a pitcher for control issues in any league I've been involved in, from LL to college games, you'd have your schedule pulled by the assignor. There is little tolerance in this area for officials making things up on their own, and hiding behind "safety" as their justification. The rules makers at the youth levels have put specific rules in place to cover what they consider to be safety rules for THEIR league. Please remember that it's not your league, and they're not your rules. You're there to adjudicate the rules of the game as they're written. If they wanted umpires to have the ability to toss pitchers who are having control issues, they would have written something into the rules specific to that situation.

Tim.

 

I am about sick of this place already you people are not listen its right in the rules. do you even read what i say? you know what screw good bye.

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All I will tell you is this, and take it as you will. If you were to eject a pitcher for control issues in any league I've been involved in, from LL to college games, you'd have your schedule pulled by the assignor. There is little tolerance in this area for officials making things up on their own, and hiding behind "safety" as their justification. The rules makers at the youth levels have put specific rules in place to cover what they consider to be safety rules for THEIR league. Please remember that it's not your league, and they're not your rules. You're there to adjudicate the rules of the game as they're written. If they wanted umpires to have the ability to toss pitchers who are having control issues, they would have written something into the rules specific to that situation.

Tim.

 

I am about sick of this place already you people are not listen its right in the rules. do you even read what i say? you know what screw good bye.

 

I don't think you are understanding what it is that you are saying.... The umpires on this board are some of the most experienced and knowledgeable regarding the rules in all codes that you will find.... If you don't want to learn from everyone here:  :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

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All I will tell you is this, and take it as you will. If you were to eject a pitcher for control issues in any league I've been involved in, from LL to college games, you'd have your schedule pulled by the assignor. There is little tolerance in this area for officials making things up on their own, and hiding behind "safety" as their justification. The rules makers at the youth levels have put specific rules in place to cover what they consider to be safety rules for THEIR league. Please remember that it's not your league, and they're not your rules. You're there to adjudicate the rules of the game as they're written. If they wanted umpires to have the ability to toss pitchers who are having control issues, they would have written something into the rules specific to that situation.

Tim.

 

I am about sick of this place already you people are not listen its right in the rules. do you even read what i say? you know what screw good bye.

 

Well, I just started reading and I am confused myself. Note my sign on which is very true. I am trying to read and understand every post you and the others have made.

Some of us on here only use 1 set of rules period. Others cross over several different rule sets. Sometimes someone may ask which set of rules are being used if they are only familiar with 1 set.

 

The first part that confused me was post 10 with the quote, "3. in the book it state "if the pitcher hits someone in head accident or not the umpire should eject him right away this is a judgement call by the umpire". I cannot find in OBR where the term accident (not intentional or on purpose) comes into play.

 

Deciding if the pitcher intentionally threw at the batter in every instance would require everyone to be a mind reader and that is what causes the difficulty in interpreting the part (d) Intentionally (on purpose) pitch at the batter, that was mentioned in post 13.

The rule is there to protect (safety) a batter who is being thrown at intentionally. The rule does not protect the batter if the pitch is not intentionally thrown at him whether it hits him or not. Also in post 13 it sounds like  you were saying that although safety is your first concern, that doesn't mean you are going to always throw the pitcher out if the batter is hit in the head. I was confused since that contradicts post 10. Then at the end of post 13 under the number 2., it is restated that it does not matter whether it was on purpose or not which counters the the part about part (d): Intentionally pitch at the batter.

It does not matter with OBR rules as to the level of play. If in the umpires judgment the player is thrown at intentionally, then a rule comes into play, warnings, ejections, etc. If not intentional, then the batter is only HBP and is awarded first base.

 

Now, if in the OP you were saying that based upon the age of the players, the umpires knew that the pitcher was intentionally throwing at the batter and did nothing about it, yes, the umpires were wrong, if that is the case. All of these HBP where the umpires has to judge intent or not are HTBT situations. However, just because a player is hit every now and then in the body or in the head and the pitcher was not intentionally throwing at the batter in the umpires judgment, there is not a thing the umpire can do. It is just a WP like any other WP. Now, if every-time a batter is hit in the head or anywhere for that matter, and the umpire thinks it is intentional, he may immediately take action.

 

If there are other rule sets that let umpires automatically eject the pitcher when he accidentally hits a batter in the head then the batter should be ejected if that rule set says to eject. No one is trying to give you a hard time for applying a rule that is written. The comments came from the ones that have the rule set that says it must be intentionally thrown at the batter (anywhere on the body), but it must be intentional before they can enforce the rule.

 

I cannot hold these other guys jockstraps when it comes to the rules, but I think this is the mildest of the sites in terms of criticizing or disagreeing with our fellow umpires. We are all on here to learn and I would encourage you that if you are fed up, it is perfectly ok to leave the site. However, I would encourage you to lurk on this site and be a sponge for a lot of valuable information that is available, even if you feel at times that things get a little to critical of another's point of view. Some are just trying to help with interpretations from their leagues or experiences concerning how the intentionally hit batter is determined and how the situation is handled. It would be great if the rule could be changed to ejecting the pitcher if he hits the batter in the head regardless of the intent, as that would totally eliminate any judgment needed by the umpire. However, those that make the rules, have not deemed it fit to change it even though this is definitely a safety issue and always has been. Maybe in the future, but not now. And in OBR at least, there is only 1 representative on the rules committee who is an umpire, and that started with the now retired Larry Young when he was a crew chief. For ages and ages there where no umpires at all on the rules committee. Go figure.

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All I will tell you is this, and take it as you will. If you were to eject a pitcher for control issues in any league I've been involved in, from LL to college games, you'd have your schedule pulled by the assignor. There is little tolerance in this area for officials making things up on their own, and hiding behind "safety" as their justification. The rules makers at the youth levels have put specific rules in place to cover what they consider to be safety rules for THEIR league. Please remember that it's not your league, and they're not your rules. You're there to adjudicate the rules of the game as they're written. If they wanted umpires to have the ability to toss pitchers who are having control issues, they would have written something into the rules specific to that situation.

Tim.

 

I am about sick of this place already you people are not listen its right in the rules. do you even read what i say? you know what screw good bye.

 

 

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. But you're apparently still not understanding what some of us are trying to tell you. The comment to 8.02(d) cannot be taken as a stand alone statement. And I think that's what you're trying to do. You must go back to the beginning of the rule where intent is required. The comment is simply saying that if you see the pitcher INTENTIONALLY throwing at the head, you need to dump him immediately without worrying about issuing a warning first.

 

Tim

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I agree with BigUmp here.  I've called Bronco and Mustang games where they had a first or second year pitcher and it's rather obvious in their form on the mound and the fact that their pitches are all over the place that anything that goes to the batter is purely accidental.  This is one of those rulings that you need to have a good feel for the game to make the correct interpretation and call.  Most youngsters in organized sport wear their emotion on their sleeve and aside from their pitching mechanics, you can get a feel from them if they are trying to pitch at somebody.  If they look up at the sky, sigh, show frustration with themselves, tip their hat, stomp, hang their head, etc...these are good signs that it wasn't intentional.  I'm a new umpire and I know that we are to be seen and not heard; however, that's how I look at it.  My :2cents: anyways.

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