Newbie quiz: Rule 4.09

[maven]

Got a call last night from a newer umpire. He had 1 out, R1, R3, batted ball to F6, and the defense turned a 6-4-3 double play. He ruled that the run did not score, but he wasn't confident about it. I asked him to explain why the run did not score, and his answer was, "because it was an inning ending double play."

 

So, newbies, please provide rulings for the following inning ending double plays. Some of these are easy. Does the run score? Why or why not?

 

1. The play just described: 1 out, R1, R3, standard 6-4-3 double play.

 

2. Same as #1 (1 out, R1, R3), batted ball to F3, who steps on 1B, throws down to F6 at 2B, where R1 is tagged out. (Does it matter whether R3 scores before or after the tag? Before or after the umpire calls R1 out?)

 

3. 1 out, bases loaded, come-backer to F1, who starts a 1-2-3 double play. (Not a trick question, really easy... keep going.)

 

4. Same as #3, but the throw to 1B is wild and goes into RF (no RLI). BR makes a move to 2B, decides he can't make it, and is put out returning to 1B. R2 meanwhile has come around to score. (Does it matter whether R2 scores before or after the tag? Before or after the umpire calls BR out?)

 

5. Same as #4, but the BR advances safely to 2B, R1 goes to 3B, and R2 scores. The BR missed 1B, and the defense appeals the missed base. Does R2's run count? (Does it matter whether R2 scores before or after the appeal? Before or after the umpire calls BR out?)

 

6. 1 out, bases loaded, batter flies out to RF, R2 and R3 tag, R1 goes half way. F9 makes the catch and throws a bullet to F3 to double off R1, who is slow returning to the base. R3 scores. (Does it matter whether R3 scores before or after the appeal? Before or after the umpire calls R1 out?)

 

7. Same as #6, but the batter flies out to LF, R2 and R3 tag, R1 goes half way. F7 throws home, too late to retire R3. The defense appeals at 2B that R2 left early, and the umpire rules him out. Count R3's run?

 

8. Same as #6, the batter flies out to RF, R2 and R3 tag, R1 goes half way. F9 throws out R1 returning to 1B. The defense then appeals that R2 left early, and the umpire bangs him out for an apparent 4th out. Count R3's run? (Does it matter whether R3 scores before or after the appeal at 1B? at 2B? Before or after the umpire calls R1 or R2 out?)

 

OK, that's it for now, I have to make a living you know! Enjoy.

[BRUMP]

1. no, 3rd out before BR touches 1st

2. time play dependent on the tag

3. no, same as #1

4. time play dependent on tag

5. no, same as #1

6. time play

7. yes

8. yes, time play dependent on appeal

[JHSump]

Do we get a Scantron with this test?  A blue book?  Or, should I just submit my answers in Blackboard?  

 

(Very nice questions!)

[maven]

Blackboard is kludge-errific. I run my own Moodle. ;)

[JHSump]

Interesting!  (And, my place got rid of Blackboard, and replaced it with the open-source Sakai.)

[iankelleyumpire]

Here is my answers I came up with pretty quick. I feel mostly confident in them, may need to explain better, but here we go:

 

 

1. 3 outs, run doesn't score, inning over. 

2. If R3 scores before the tag at 2nd, run scores, if 3rd out (tag at 2nd) is before R3 is home, run does not count, 3 outs, inning over. 

3. Double play, 3 outs, force is in order, inning over. 

4. Timing play, depends on when the back tag is made (not the force) and when R2 is home. 

5. Depends on if appealed, the umpires call the runner out or keep him safe. If they rule him out, the run(s) do not score, and the third out is recorded because it is on the original force play at 1B. 

6. If the run scores before the out at 1B (pending the runner didn't leave early and tagged up), R3 scores followed by the 3rd out, inning over. 

7. R3's run does not count, BR out, R2 out, 3 outs, inning over. 

8. Tricky one! I believe if R2 is called out on appeal, then R3 run doesn't count, and the third out is recorded on the force out at 2nd. However, if they rule R2 safe and claim he didn't leave early, the third out recorded on BR/R1 tag out, then it becomes time play for R3 scoring.

[Rich Ives]

Here is my answers I came up with pretty quick. I feel mostly confident in them, may need to explain better, but here we go:

 

 

1. 3 outs, run doesn't score, inning over. 

2. If R3 scores before the tag at 2nd, run scores, if 3rd out (tag at 2nd) is before R3 is home, run does not count, 3 outs, inning over. 

3. Double play, 3 outs, force is in order, inning over. 

4. Timing play, depends on when the back tag is made (not the force) and when R2 is home. 

5. Depends on if appealed, the umpires call the runner out or keep him safe. If they rule him out, the run(s) do not score, and the third out is recorded because it is on the original force play at 1B. 

6. If the run scores before the out at 1B (pending the runner didn't leave early and tagged up), R3 scores followed by the 3rd out, inning over. 

7. R3's run does not count, BR out, R2 out, 3 outs, inning over. 

8. Tricky one! I believe if R2 is called out on appeal, then R3 run doesn't count, and the third out is recorded on the force out at 2nd. However, if they rule R2 safe and claim he didn't leave early, the third out recorded on BR/R1 tag out, then it becomes time play for R3 scoring.

 

 

7 & 8 both score the run.  The appeal for the tag-up is NOT a force. These are time plays.

[maven]

8 is tricky because some umpires assume that an apparent 4th out is always an advantageous 4th out. Not so in this case, as coach has pointed out. The defense gains no advantage (no run is canceled) by recording that out.

[grayhawk]

Remember, there CAN NOT be a force out on a caught fly ball.  Any outs, including appeals, recorded after a caught fly ball would be time plays in relation to a run scoring.

[SoCal Lurker]

8 is tricky because some umpires assume that an apparent 4th out is always an advantageous 4th out. Not so in this case, as coach has pointed out. The defense gains no advantage (no run is canceled) by recording that out.

 

OK, to be sure I'm clear on what you're sayin .  A 4th out only can be called if it is advantageous, right?  (I'm guessing that is why you said "apparent"?)  So in #8, the U should not have called the 4th out - correcdt?

[maven]

 

8 is tricky because some umpires assume that an apparent 4th out is always an advantageous 4th out. Not so in this case, as coach has pointed out. The defense gains no advantage (no run is canceled) by recording that out.

 

OK, to be sure I'm clear on what you're sayin .  A 4th out only can be called if it is advantageous, right?  (I'm guessing that is why you said "apparent"?)  So in #8, the U should not have called the 4th out - correcdt?

 

 

The defense may appeal, and if they did I might rule on it. But unlike an advantageous 4th out, that out will not supersede the 3rd out.

 

Since the out doesn't count, you could also ignore it, as you might if the defense turned a "double play" when they already had 2 outs in the inning.