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Guest coachdarrell

can you run over the catcher

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Guest coachdarrell

Tonight in our game a batter hit the ball to right field , the outfielder feilded the ball and threw towards the plate . The throw was off target and our catcher drifted up third base line to catch the ball . the runner coming home ran up and shoved him down just before the ball hit the mit and it allowed the ball to go to the screen and two runs scored . is this a legal move by the base runner? .

 

 

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Agreed, though depending on the league and rules, unsportsmanlike conduct may be what it's called instead of malicious contact.

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Guest coachdarrell

the runner going home could have avoided the contact because he was looking at the catcher as he ran into him , the catcher was watching the ball and didnt see the contact coming , therefore the ball goes to the fence and rolls down by the dugout and two runs score . i walked out to the ump and asked does he not get a chance to play that ball ? was that interference? and he said " No! if you run into a fielder on a hit ball it is int. if you run into some one on a thrown ball it is not !"  this umpire had made several questionable calls for both teams during this game and would seem to be very irritated if you even walked to him and asked for an explanation about a call he made . we play by dixie league rules and its 12 yr old div. If there is a written rule that would cover this situation i would greatly appreciate anyone letting me in on it ! 

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The throw was off target and our catcher drifted up third base line to catch the ball.

 

You're asking us to judge a play without seeing it and the devil is often in the details. One man's "shove" might be another's "putting hands up to lessen the collision".

 

You say that the throw was off-line and the catcher was drifting into the baseline to catch it. Is it possible that had the catcher not moved into the runner's path, there would not have been a collision? When a fielder suddenly, unexpectedly or unavoidably moves into the path of a runner, sometimes a pretty spectacular collision can result. But it's not the runner's fault. It's not automatically interference and the runner isn't automatically out.

 

I'm sure that you're looking for some kind of indictment of this runner's actions, some way to "prove your case" that he should have been out. We can give you the rule (no, you can't plow over the catcher), but we can't judge all of the circumstances surrounding the play- because we didn't see it. And make no mistake about it, interference is always a judgment call.

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Bret is correct, I read the play as the catcher was slowly moving up the line, that's drift to me, so likely the runner should have time to change lines. That change could then be obstruction by the catcher. If the runner had time to adjust then he can't roll the catcher. If the catcher steps in front of him and gives him no time to adjust then the collision is probably legal, and again, likely obstruction.  

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Guest TNCoach

Similar play this season but under FED.  Ball thrown up the 3B line as runner comes home.  Runner goes into head first slide/dive as F2 has to come up the line to make the catch... BANG.  Major collision. 

 

Ruling on the field was no MC, no EJ.  It is all in the words and how you saw it.  I would say this was HTBT to see if it was a "shove".  I am not saying it wasn't, but even on that play I talked about.  I knew the player was attempting the dive and there was no MC, but I fully expected it because I thought the umpire would see it as MC.

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Guest coachdarrell

.Well, Bretman , i didn't ask you to make a call on the play .... and i've coached for 10 years and obviously know the difference between lessoning the blow and a shove . the catcher moved up the line to get in front of throw and had stopped to catch the ball , the runner who was still 3 steps from him and very slow ran directly to him and shoved him with both hands in his left shoulder which put him in the dirt and out of the path of the ball which allowed the ball to skip down the fence and two runs scored . the runner was breaking up the play it was obvious. all i asked was for someone to tell me the rule on runners interfering with some one trying to make a play on a thrown ball. no matter what anyone says on this forum the call was made , the loss is in the books , and nothing will be changed this time  by me knowing the rule . next time i want to be sure

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.Well, Bretman , i didn't ask you to make a call on the play .... and i've coached for 10 years and obviously know the difference between lessoning the blow and a shove ....

 

Well ,sorry for offering commentary that might help you better understand the rules- which you obviously do not, or else you wouldn't be here asking people to explain them to you.

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.Well, Bretman , i didn't ask you to make a call on the play .... and i've coached for 10 years and obviously know the difference between lessoning the blow and a shove . the catcher moved up the line to get in front of throw and had stopped to catch the ball , the runner who was still 3 steps from him and very slow ran directly to him and shoved him with both hands in his left shoulder which put him in the dirt and out of the path of the ball which allowed the ball to skip down the fence and two runs scored . the runner was breaking up the play it was obvious. all i asked was for someone to tell me the rule on runners interfering with some one trying to make a play on a thrown ball. no matter what anyone says on this forum the call was made , the loss is in the books , and nothing will be changed this time  by me knowing the rule . next time i want to be sure

 

From that description it would then be very clearly deliberate interference by the runner so he is out and also MC with an ejection.

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From that description it would then be very clearly deliberate interference by the runner so he is out and also MC with an ejection.

 

 

Careful. He might take you to task for "making a call on the play"!

 

Or maybe not. I suspect he's more than open to hearing "calls" that agree with the result he's obviously searching for.

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From that description it would then be very clearly deliberate interference by the runner so he is out and also MC with an ejection.

 

 

Careful. He might take you to task for "making a call on the play"!

 

Or maybe not. I suspect he's more than open to hearing "calls" that agree with the result he's obviously searching for.

 

 

LOL, just putting in my 2 cents.  Would agree that from the initial description it would have been hard to make a call on it.  What I find really interesting is that someone who has been coaching for 10 years doesn't know obvious interference when he sees it and can't articulate the rule to the umpire when he goes to question the call.

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And as the catcher didn't have the ball yet it may or may not be obstruction rather than interference depending on which rules were in effect.

 

And if it was obstruction the run might or might not count depending on the rule set

 

because

 

If it was ruled MC or UC then that might  or might not override the obstruction and be an out.

 

But you didn't get the call you wanted so it was obviously wrong - right?

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the runner going home could have avoided the contact because he was looking at the catcher as he ran into him , the catcher was watching the ball and didnt see the contact coming , therefore the ball goes to the fence and rolls down by the dugout and two runs score . i walked out to the ump and asked does he not get a chance to play that ball ? was that interference? and he said " No! if you run into a fielder on a hit ball it is int. if you run into some one on a thrown ball it is not !"  this umpire had made several questionable calls for both teams during this game and would seem to be very irritated if you even walked to him and asked for an explanation about a call he made . we play by dixie league rules and its 12 yr old div. If there is a written rule that would cover this situation i would greatly appreciate anyone letting me in on it ! 

Sorry, the closest you're gonna get here is 7.08b and that doesn't apply unless he intentionally interfered with the thrown ball.  And according to 7.08m the runner is out if he does not slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag. Doesn't sound like the situation you stated.  The best you could hope for is that the umpire would EJ the runner for unsportsmanlike conduct under 9.01d.  I have worked DIXIE YOUTH BASEBALL for a few years, am very familiar with their rulebook and have never found a Malicious Contact rule or even the word malicious in it. 

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Guest Guest

Tonight in our game a batter hit the ball to right field , the outfielder feilded the ball and threw towards the plate . The throw was off target and our catcher drifted up third base line to catch the ball . the runner coming home ran up and shoved him down just before the ball hit the mit and it allowed the ball to go to the screen and two runs scored . is this a legal move by the base runner? .

What level are we talking here? HS? LL? In LL, that would be Obstruction on the catcher as HE DID NOT HAVE POSSESSION OF THE BALL. Basepath is the runner's until the catcher has possession of the ball.

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Tonight in our game a batter hit the ball to right field , the outfielder feilded the ball and threw towards the plate . The throw was off target and our catcher drifted up third base line to catch the ball . the runner coming home ran up and shoved him down just before the ball hit the mit and it allowed the ball to go to the screen and two runs scored . is this a legal move by the base runner? .

What level are we talking here? HS? LL? In LL, that would be Obstruction on the catcher as HE DID NOT HAVE POSSESSION OF THE BALL. Basepath is the runner's until the catcher has possession of the ball.

 

Not necessarily. In youth baseball all codes I am aware of has either a malicious contact or unsportsman conduct rule. without the ball the runner gets prioty but he also can't headhunt. 

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