Double Play after Conference

[mjr_2013]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26059939&c_id=mlb&topic_id=vtp_opening_week

 

I see two things of note that we can learn from.

 

1) The importance of making a call while STOPPED. U1 made this call on the move. I bet if he had stopped, regardless of where he was, he makes the call right and doesn't need help.

 

2) Why is the Home Plate Ump making the out signal after conference? U1's call, U1's change of call. U1 should have made the out signal.

 

Thoughts?

[Vegas]

Could U1 have just slid into fair territory after Prince catches the ball for the first out and passes him? That way, U1 has an angle to the runner getting back and Prince getting to the bag? Am I thinking this through correctly?

[maven]

I see two things of note that we can learn from.

 

1) The importance of making a call while STOPPED. U1 made this call on the move. I bet if he had stopped, regardless of where he was, he makes the call right and doesn't need help.

 

2) Why is the Home Plate Ump making the out signal after conference? U1's call, U1's change of call. U1 should have made the out signal.

 

Thoughts?

 

1. Agree.

 

2. In MLB, the crew chief routinely announces changed calls. The rationale for this is that he is responsible for calls that the crew makes as a whole.

 

For amateur ball, it should generally be handled as you suggest: if PU gives U1 info and U1 decides to change his call, then U1 announces the change and deals with the fallout.

[dumbdumb]

I see two things of note that we can learn from.

 

1) The importance of making a call while STOPPED. U1 made this call on the move. I bet if he had stopped, regardless of where he was, he makes the call right and doesn't need help.

 

2) Why is the Home Plate Ump making the out signal after conference? U1's call, U1's change of call. U1 should have made the out signal.

 

Thoughts?

 

1. Agree.

 

2. In MLB, the crew chief routinely announces changed calls. The rationale for this is that he is responsible for calls that the crew makes as a whole.

 

For amateur ball, it should generally be handled as you suggest: if PU gives U1 info and U1 decides to change his call, then U1 announces the change and deals with the fallout.

 

In amateur, it use to be the plate umpire was automatically the UIC for the game, which is the same as CC, IMHO. Also, I have heard that some games are specifically assigned, from the assignor, which designates one umpire out of 2 equally competent umpires to a game as the PU, simply because the assignor wants that particular PU umpire as the UIC (cc) for anything that arises on the field. In those cases, should the plate umpire do the same thing as Layne?

 

Also, watch for later in the year when both of these coaches will get tossed and argue that the umpire has to own his own calls when a call gets reversed like this. Guaranteed that is what Leyland would have done if they he had been in Girardi's shoes. Of course, when it goes for him, he just walks off. Both managers are two-faced on this issue as are many others. As long as it goes for me (i.e. squeaky wheel gets the oil) it is the greatest decision to get together and get the call correct, and the umpires are right, but when it goes against me, they should own their calls. Just another day at the yard.

[carolinablue]

Maybe they are working real hard to keep expanded IR out of the game.

[maven]

In amateur, it use to be the plate umpire was automatically the UIC for the game, which is the same as CC, IMHO. Also, I have heard that some games are specifically assigned, from the assignor, which designates one umpire out of 2 equally competent umpires to a game as the PU, simply because the assignor wants that particular PU umpire as the UIC (cc) for anything that arises on the field. In those cases, should the plate umpire do the same thing as Layne?

 

For FED, you are correct: PU is the UIC. That is not, however, equivalent to MLB crew chief. FED mechanics specify the UIC puts the ball in play, has sole authority to forfeit a game, decides when to turn the lights on, and a few other matters. 10-1-4 specifically disallows an umpire to overrule another umpire's call.

[dumbdumb]

In amateur, it use to be the plate umpire was automatically the UIC for the game, which is the same as CC, IMHO. Also, I have heard that some games are specifically assigned, from the assignor, which designates one umpire out of 2 equally competent umpires to a game as the PU, simply because the assignor wants that particular PU umpire as the UIC (cc) for anything that arises on the field. In those cases, should the plate umpire do the same thing as Layne?

 

For FED, you are correct: PU is the UIC. That is not, however, equivalent to MLB crew chief. FED mechanics specify the UIC puts the ball in play, has sole authority to forfeit a game, decides when to turn the lights on, and a few other matters. 10-1-4 specifically disallows an umpire to overrule another umpire's call.

So this means if they get together and decide to change a call, the umpire with the original responsibility (i.e. 1st base umpire in OP) will give the final decision and signal??

Just clarifying.

[dumbdumb]

Maybe they are working real hard to keep expanded IR out of the game.

 

Get out there to Ernie Shore field by 1:00 today and see if this play happens to the crew today. Two of the umpires worked the Regionals last year. They are working 3rd and 1st today. See if the #6 ranked team can be beaten on a field named after a pitcher who came in after Ruth was ejected after walking the first batter of the game. That pitcher then picked the runner off and retired the next 26 batters in a row.

 

This was interesting and had to do a little googling to find this out.

[carolinablue]

Maybe they are working real hard to keep expanded IR out of the game.

 

Get out there to Ernie Shore field by 1:00 today and see if this play happens to the crew today. Two of the umpires worked the Regionals last year. They are working 3rd and 1st today. See if the #6 ranked team can be beaten on a field named after a pitcher who came in after Ruth was ejected after walking the first batter of the game. That pitcher then picked the runner off and retired the next 26 batters in a row.

 

This was interesting and had to do a little googling to find this out.

 

That's hilarious because I am headed there right now. I'm a big UVA fan. I marked this game several months ago.

[dumbdumb]

 

Maybe they are working real hard to keep expanded IR out of the game.

 

Get out there to Ernie Shore field by 1:00 today and see if this play happens to the crew today. Two of the umpires worked the Regionals last year. They are working 3rd and 1st today. See if the #6 ranked team can be beaten on a field named after a pitcher who came in after Ruth was ejected after walking the first batter of the game. That pitcher then picked the runner off and retired the next 26 batters in a row.

 

This was interesting and had to do a little googling to find this out.

 

That's hilarious because I am headed there right now. I'm a big UVA fan. I marked this game several months ago.

OK Mr. Wahoo. Oops. The PU worked in the PCL so you should be watching a good crew. They should be out exchanging the line-up cards right now, if it is like games I have watched. 12:55pm.

[maven]

So this means if they get together and decide to change a call, the umpire with the original responsibility (i.e. 1st base umpire in OP) will give the final decision and signal??

Just clarifying.

The process is somewhat different. For FED, if in doubt the covering umpire may ask for input from his partner. Based on that information, the covering umpire decides whether to change the call. He reports his decision to the coaches. The covering umpire is the decision maker in this process.

For MLB, as I understand it, the CC can call the umpires together to discuss a call. He will get all info from the crew, especially the covering umpire. The crew will try to reach consensus, but if they cannot the CC makes the decision. The CC is the ultimate decision maker in this process.

If I don't have the MLB side perfectly right, someone will be along shortly to provide more recent info.

[mjr_2013]

 

I see two things of note that we can learn from.

 

1) The importance of making a call while STOPPED. U1 made this call on the move. I bet if he had stopped, regardless of where he was, he makes the call right and doesn't need help.

 

2) Why is the Home Plate Ump making the out signal after conference? U1's call, U1's change of call. U1 should have made the out signal.

 

Thoughts?

 

1. Agree.

 

2. In MLB, the crew chief routinely announces changed calls. The rationale for this is that he is responsible for calls that the crew makes as a whole.

 

For amateur ball, it should generally be handled as you suggest: if PU gives U1 info and U1 decides to change his call, then U1 announces the change and deals with the fallout.

 

In amateur, it use to be the plate umpire was automatically the UIC for the game, which is the same as CC, IMHO. Also, I have heard that some games are specifically assigned, from the assignor, which designates one umpire out of 2 equally competent umpires to a game as the PU, simply because the assignor wants that particular PU umpire as the UIC (cc) for anything that arises on the field. In those cases, should the plate umpire do the same thing as Layne?

 

Also, watch for later in the year when both of these coaches will get tossed and argue that the umpire has to own his own calls when a call gets reversed like this. Guaranteed that is what Leyland would have done if they he had been in Girardi's shoes. Of course, when it goes for him, he just walks off. Both managers are two-faced on this issue as are many others. As long as it goes for me (i.e. squeaky wheel gets the oil) it is the greatest decision to get together and get the call correct, and the umpires are right, but when it goes against me, they should own their calls. Just another day at the yard.

I always thought Girardi was worse than Leyland. Didn't Girardi make comments last postseason about how badly we need IR (after a blown call against the Yankees), when we found comments from earlier in that year of Girardi stressing the human aspect (after a blown call for the Yankees)?

[mstaylor]

 

 

I see two things of note that we can learn from.

 

1) The importance of making a call while STOPPED. U1 made this call on the move. I bet if he had stopped, regardless of where he was, he makes the call right and doesn't need help.

 

2) Why is the Home Plate Ump making the out signal after conference? U1's call, U1's change of call. U1 should have made the out signal.

 

Thoughts?

 

1. Agree.

 

2. In MLB, the crew chief routinely announces changed calls. The rationale for this is that he is responsible for calls that the crew makes as a whole.

 

For amateur ball, it should generally be handled as you suggest: if PU gives U1 info and U1 decides to change his call, then U1 announces the change and deals with the fallout.

 

In amateur, it use to be the plate umpire was automatically the UIC for the game, which is the same as CC, IMHO. Also, I have heard that some games are specifically assigned, from the assignor, which designates one umpire out of 2 equally competent umpires to a game as the PU, simply because the assignor wants that particular PU umpire as the UIC (cc) for anything that arises on the field. In those cases, should the plate umpire do the same thing as Layne?

 

Also, watch for later in the year when both of these coaches will get tossed and argue that the umpire has to own his own calls when a call gets reversed like this. Guaranteed that is what Leyland would have done if they he had been in Girardi's shoes. Of course, when it goes for him, he just walks off. Both managers are two-faced on this issue as are many others. As long as it goes for me (i.e. squeaky wheel gets the oil) it is the greatest decision to get together and get the call correct, and the umpires are right, but when it goes against me, they should own their calls. Just another day at the yard.

I always thought Girardi was worse than Leyland. Didn't Girardi make comments last postseason about how badly we need IR (after a blown call against the Yankees), when we found comments from earlier in that year of Girardi stressing the human aspect (after a blown call for the Yankees)?

Both are clueless. Actually Leland isn't bad off the field, he just doesn't know how to argue, when to quit. Girardi is a straight rat, on and off the field. 

[HokieUmp]

 I'm a big UVA fan.

 

[Haid D' Salaami]

Most of you know I HATE GOING INTO FOUL TERRITORY to make calls.. stay 1-2 feet of the line in Fair ground and you'll see this.

[carolinablue]

 I'm a big UVA fan.

 

 

 

OK, you guys have football..........Let us have baseball.

[mstaylor]

I assume you are rooting for that team with the sissy blue uniforms?   Go MD.

[carolinablue]

I assume you are rooting for that team with the sissy blue uniforms?   Go MD.

 

No not UNC. I just live in NC,  Virginia is in my blood.

[dumbdumb]

Most of you know I HATE GOING INTO FOUL TERRITORY to make calls.. stay 1-2 feet of the line in Fair ground and you'll see this.

 

And you can flat out kick a call from there also, as well as make the correct call from out of position, but yes, it would have nice to see if he would have had a clear view from the position you mentioned rather than have Fielder's body (and there is a lot of it) blocking his view of the hand because he couldn't see through that big body and was straight-lined. Only after the body cleared (although foot was still on the base) a little could he see the hand and it was now on the base.

 

Maybe he over-husteled for the angle in foul territory rather than just 1 step in foul and that caused the miss, who knows. How he got blocked, who knows, but that should be the only reason (not just because he thought he missed the judgement of the call) that he went for help, rather than just eat the call IMHO.

 

And, once again, we all kick calls, even when in perfect position, however it would have been interesting to see if another alternated position like the one you mentioned would have solved the problem.

Most of you know I HATE GOING INTO FOUL TERRITORY to make calls.. stay 1-2 feet of the line in Fair ground and you'll see this.

 

And you can flat out kick a call from there also, as well as make the correct call from out of position, but yes, it would have been nice to see if he would have had a clear view from the position you mentioned rather than have Fielder's body (and there is a lot of it) blocking his view of the hand because he couldn't see through that big body and was straight-lined. Only after the body cleared (although foot was still on the base) a little could he see the hand and it was now on the base.

 

Maybe he over-husteled for the angle in foul territory rather than just 1 step in foul and that caused the miss, who knows. How he got blocked, who knows, but that should be the only reason (not just because he thought he missed the judgement of the call) that he went for help, rather than just eat the call IMHO.

 

And, once again, we all kick calls, even when in perfect position, however it would have been interesting to see if another alternated position like the one you mentioned would have solved the problem.

[HokieUmp]

 

 I'm a big UVA fan.

 

 

 

OK, you guys have football..........Let us have baseball.

 

Wait.  What?  You guys also have (usually) the governorship, the attorney-general-ship (I know it's not a word - shut up!), most of the general assembly, and more than likely, 90+% of the polo-and-cocktail-party circuit.  And you want baseball, too?!??

 

No.  No, I say!

 

[carolinablue]

 

 

 I'm a big UVA fan.

 

 

 

OK, you guys have football..........Let us have baseball.

 

Wait.  What?  You guys also have (usually) the governorship, the attorney-general-ship (I know it's not a word - shut up!), most of the general assembly, and more than likely, 90+% of the polo-and-cocktail-party circuit.  And you want baseball, too?!??

 

No.  No, I say!

 

 

We have a good young basketball coach too, the future looks bright.

 

BTW, dumbdumb, I enjoyed watching that crew at the game yesterday, just as advertised.

[IABlue]

How do you guys know who the umpires are for a college game beforehand?

[dumbdumb]

How do you guys know who the umpires are for a college game beforehand?

Here is the web address. Other than knowing the umpire personally and he give's you his schedule (just guessing here), you do not know the crew until it is posted on game tracker as the game is in progress. Sometimes you can click on pre-game and find out the crew a little before the game starts. The only other thing you can do if it will not give you the pre-game, is wait till the game is over and click on the box score. It should have the umpires at the bottom of the box score. Then, if you know them or have heard about them, you can go watch them on Saturday or Sunday. Once again, it is tough to know who has the Friday game far enough in advance to go see someone, unless that someone gives their schedule to you.

 

Enjoy

 

http://www.d1baseball.com/