8.05(c)?

[BalkHawk]

OBR says:

8.05

If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

© The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 8.05© Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk. 

 

 

In the first video, F1 does not disengage, and attempts a pickoff of R1. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGN7fjbw9n8

 

 

In the second video, F1 persists. R1 happens to be a speedy guy, playing for a team known for swiping bases.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kSvZ2JiwHWg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

 

At this time, BalkHawk declared, "that's a balk!" from the stands, and awarded R1 advance to 2nd base, however  the MLB umpire crew never echoed the call. I like to think the baseball gods were in favor of calling both 8.05© balks, hence, the final video:

http://youtu.be/HE_09KaG_PE

 

 

I tried three different ways to get the player to show instead of the link. If somebody knows how, share please.

[UmpJM]

balkhawk,

 

Why do you think they were illegal?

 

JM

[BalkHawk]

it looks to me like he spun on his free foot, rather than stepping to 1st base.

[Called3rdStrike]

He not gaining much distance, but he is gaining some.

[BalkHawk]

Jacksa/Roder have an interp for "distance and direction" (you may or may not agree) (or you may just think I'm rong)

 

A step to a base must have distance and direction to that base.

(a) Distance: In stepping, a pitcher must bring his free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot. Hence, movement of the free foot is only a step when there is vertical movement (i.e., lift), and horizontal movement (i.e., distance along the ground).

[UmpJM]

BalkHawk,

 

If you look at the position of his free foot before the move, you will see it is entirely in front of the rubber, with the "ball" of his free foot approximately 6" from the 3B side of the rubber.

 

Were he to "spin" on his free foot, the ball of his free foot would STILL be approx. 6" from the 3B side of the rubber after the move,

 

As you can see, the ball of his free foot is completely beyond the 1B side of the rubber after the move - because he made a direct step to 1B that gained distance and direction.

 

It is NOT a balk.

 

JM

[BalkHawk]

You mean I tried to bend the rules since my team wasn't going to win fair-and-square?

I have a sudden urge for cheese. Cheddar, swiss, monteray jack, mmm smokey gouda, soo much cheese!!

[sdix00]

I have a balk

 

 

 

 

 

Frum the WUM:

[BalkHawk]

"Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources."
- The Credible Hulk 

a.k.a. ess dicks two-stacks

I wanna be you for just a moment, so I can   

[UmpJM]

Steve,

 

I still don't have a balk.

 

Two reasons:

 

1. There is no practical way to "see" with any precision that fine a distinction other than from the overhead perspective provided in the diagram.

 

2. The MLBUM (7.6) in describing "step balks" says:

 

...The pitcher is not allowed to lift his non-pivot foot up and bring it back down in the same spot where it started. In stepping, the heel of the pitcher's free foot may not end up in the same spot it started.

 

 That's the official interpretation, which the pitcher in the video clearly complied with.

 

JM

[sdix00]

Steve,

 

I still don't have a balk.

 

Two reasons:

 

1. There is no practical way to "see" with any precision that fine a distinction other than from the overhead perspective provided in the diagram.

 

2. The MLBUM (7.6) in describing "step balks" says:

 

...The pitcher is not allowed to lift his non-pivot foot up and bring it back down in the same spot where it started. In stepping, the heel of the pitcher's free foot may not end up in the same spot it started.

 

 That's the official interpretation, which the pitcher in the video clearly complied with.

 

JM

 

 

Fair enough.  

 

However, I have the heel not gaining any ground.  I disagree that it is clear.    

 

If we have different judgement, then we can have different rulings. 

 

I think we are on the same page as the rule and interp goes, though. 

[BalkHawk]

Steve,

 

I still don't have a balk.

 

Two reasons:

 

1. There is no practical way to "see" with any precision that fine a distinction other than from the overhead perspective provided in the diagram.

 

2. The MLBUM (7.6) in describing "step balks" says:

 

...The pitcher is not allowed to lift his non-pivot foot up and bring it back down in the same spot where it started. In stepping, the heel of the pitcher's free foot may not end up in the same spot it started.

 

 That's the official interpretation, which the pitcher in the video clearly complied with.

 

JM

[UmpJM]

dix,

 

Aaahhh...

 

Now I understand what you're saying w. regard to the heel - brain fart on my part.

 

JM

[noumpere]

Based on the pictures only (because I'm too lazy to watch the video lol) I agree with Dix that it si a balk but its also never going to be called in a pro game this way.

[maven]

I seem to recall it being called on Verlander in the last post-season. He was *shocked*, *shocked*.

[Umpire in Chief]

Great videos. Good learning points. Putting my O's fan cap aside, I do not have balks. 

[dddunn3d]

Jacksa/Roder have an interp for "distance and direction" (you may or may not agree) (or you may just think I'm rong)

 

 

A step to a base must have distance and direction to that base.

(a) Distance: In stepping, a pitcher must bring his free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot. Hence, movement of the free foot is only a step when there is vertical movement (i.e., lift), and horizontal movement (i.e., distance along the ground).

J/R has been falling out of favor concerning rule interpretations for quite a while; is it the only reference material you have?

[Thunderheads]

It's funny that this is being brought up .....because I was watching this game the other day and I kept saying to myself.....   "jeeez, ...that's a balk, isn't it?!?"
 

Spin move with no distance ............

[mstaylor]

I will grant you, on the first one he probably does land about the same distance in relation to first but he is moving up the mound so it is hard to tell. The second one he does gain distance. The third one he goes to plate, what's the question about it?