Interesting Foul Tip Call...

[hbk314]

http://mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25283339&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25283339&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_25283339&v=3

How do you make that call?

[Umpire in Chief]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

[carolinablue]

WTF? The only thing I can think of is that they thought he caught it and then lost it on transfer??

[hbk314]

WTF? The only thing I can think of is that they thought he caught it and then lost it on transfer??

That has to be it, but how do you make that call to begin with?

And even more, how does that call stand after they get together? It's an easy fix.

[UMP45]

Oh well :HS

[BRUMP]

WTF? The only thing I can think of is that they thought he caught it and then lost it on transfer??

And even more, how does that call stand after they get together? It's an easy fix.

That's the biggest question. It was a fairly obvious call.

[Mr Umpire]

First, why does Manuel not know who to go to? Why is he going to U3 regardless of who is the CC? That is the first mistake on this play. Time to retire.

The only one who may be able to help is U1. U3 won't be able to see the timing and U2 is straightlined on this. U1 is the only one who has any sense and view of what happened. I wonder what was said to not get enough info on this to make a better call. However, I don't know how this was missed in the first place. Plays like this seem pretty routine to call and I'm surprised it was missed at all. Everything seemed to be delayed reactions by F2 and PU on the whole thing.

[mstaylor]

The PU had FT all the way, U2 had foul. Obviously the PU was wrong but I don't see this getting changed. Now the interesting part of the play is the runner sees U2 show foul and starts to return to first, then goes back to the base. What happens if he gets tagged out? Does it get changed to foul because U2 called it foul? Or does it stay the same because really all he did was kill the ball? I guess if you aren't changing the FT to foul then a tagout of a returning runner didn't happen, U2 killed the ball. Interesting what ifs.

[Rich Ives]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

Two hands over the head is "Time" not "foul".

[Umpete]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

Two hands over the head is "Time" not "foul".

Why would U2 be calling "Time" before the runner even got to 2B?

[mstaylor]

He is calling it foul no doubt, but if you watch the video I don't think he verbalized foul, nor should he.

[Haid D' Salaami]

HP umpire is Manny Gonzales BTW....

[Haid D' Salaami]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

Two hands over the head is "Time" not "foul".

So what is the signal for foul ball then?

[Umpire in Chief]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

Two hands over the head is "Time" not "foul".

Touche' incorrect choice of words on my part.

The fact remains the same, you can even see he is raising his hands at the 0:04 mark, before Harper arrives at second.

This leads us to make 2 assumptions based on the facts given. Hernandez is recognizing the foul, and Harper also recognized the foul as he returns to 1st.

[Umpire in Chief]

I've only recently become a convert to the "Get together to get the call right" group, but when you get together and still don't on a simple call it is irrational. Why get together in the first place???

[Rich Ives]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

Two hands over the head is "Time" not "foul".

So what is the signal for foul ball then?

You point foul.

Watch ANY "time" call. Batter or catcher asks and it;'s granted. Runner asks and it's granted, Whatever. Two hands over the head is "time".

[bam]

You see Hernandez is killing the ball as foul, I don't know why they didn't change the call.

Two hands over the head is "Time" not "foul".

So what is the signal for foul ball then?

You point foul.

Watch ANY "time" call. Batter or catcher asks and it;'s granted. Runner asks and it's granted, Whatever. Two hands over the head is time"

Two hands raised IS foul. It's also "TIme", but pointing toward foul territory is NOT the signal for "foul", regardless of the mechanic some MLB umpires use. You will never see it in a MiLB game.

[Umpire in Chief]

Technically (at least the way I was taught) raising the hands in time, and the point comes second.

Early on I was always pointing, then raising my hands, then someone explained it to me like this, "You call time (raising hands), then tell why (point)" and that has stuck with me ever since, and I haven't reverted back to the wrong way since.

[Mudder]

Technically (at least the way I was taught) raising the hands in time, and the point comes second.

Early on I was always pointing, then raising my hands, then someone explained it to me like this, "You call time (raising hands), then tell why (point)" and that has stuck with me ever since, and I haven't reverted back to the wrong way since.

On the video, at .04, U2 is calling time/foul before the HP does. On a close one like that, are the field umps not supposed to wait for HP ump to make the foul call and then they will echo it on the field?

[JaxRolo]

Foul Signal-The same signal as "Time" but the call becomes "Foul." Umpires often add a point into foul territory with one hand after giving the time signal.

[Mr Umpire]

U2 called Foul/Time. The signal is the same but the verbal is different. Yes, some point foul after the fact. I'm guilty of that simply b/c they hear a call but not sure what the call was. This is amateur baseball after all. Then, I show them what the call was by pointing. This is what I have seen and been taught as well. Too many times have I seen some watch the play and THEN look at me to see what the call was. Pointing helps clear it up for them real quick.

However, is PU not giving the "foul tip" signal in the clip? If so, why is U2 signaling anything? It looks like he thinks he knows what the call is but why is he not convincing PU of it?

[Rich Ives]

People assume the two hands up means foul. But it's time. Foul creates time so they signal time and that creates the erroneous impression. . And if you don't think they point then you aren't paying attention. They even point on caught foul flies.

[JaxRolo]

So on a foul why dont we yell Time?

[Jocko]

The mechanic for foul and time is the same. Foul mech will sometimes be followed by a point. Come on, Rainman. Why do you insist on splitting frog hair?

[Mr Umpire]

People assume the two hands up means foul. But it's time. Foul creates time so they signal time and that creates the erroneous impression. . And if you don't think they point then you aren't paying attention. They even point on caught foul flies.

Actually, when I call "Time", it is with 1 hand and a verbal "Time". Seems to work and the players know what is meant. Why is that? Could it be that most of it depends on the verbal that goes with it?

As Jocko said, why split hairs over absolutely nothing? Look at the recent Balk AND Catcher's Interference thread. Too many want to nit pick for some reason.