Balk - Throwing to an uncovered first base

[Umpire in Chief]

You don't see this every day.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25008499&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_25008499&v=3

[UMP45]

In others words I got caught cheating so I want to go home! The first base coach knew it was a balk! Also it's not throwing to an unoccupied base.

[johnnyg08]

When you throw to first base from the rubber, you must throw to the base. That's why they called the balk....is that right?

[Umpire in Chief]

In others words I got caught cheating so I want to go home! The first base coach knew it was a balk! Also it's not throwing to an unoccupied base.

Correct, I'll fix the title.

[Umpire in Chief]

I jot a PM this morning asking where in the rules it states this is a balk.

I went to OBR 8.05 and didn't find it explicitly stated.

It is one of those items that are found through interpretation.

Here is the interpretation as given in the Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretation Manual:

The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to complete the throw [8.05 (b)].

o The pitcher “flinches” towards first base with his arms or shoulders.

o The pitcher throws to

the first baseman playing at his position, and not directly to first base.

[UMP45]

In others words I got caught cheating so I want to go home! The first base coach knew it was a balk! Also it's not throwing to an unoccupied base.

Correct, I'll fix the title.

Thanks. I probably wouldn't have got over 7-8 hours of sleep worrying about it! LOL :rollinglaugh:

[Dannytheman]

This was a pretty good video of a the 1st baseman not covering the bag. Good call, and lousy argument by the HC.

[Guest]

This balk, in 8.05, falls under a pitcher faking a throw to first. For an explicit statement, it can only be found in interpretation manuals. You can excuse the pitcher throwing to F3 when he's away from a base as long as he is close enough to legitimately make a play on the runner. How close is close enough is purely the judgement of the umpire.

[mstaylor]

Definitely throwing to F3 away from the base. But he also kicked toward home with his leg, or it looked like it. He started toward first but it looks like he kicks out toward the plate and then stepped toward first. Not a good camera angle so I may be wrong on that one.

[basejester]

This balk, in 8.05, falls under a pitcher faking a throw to first. For an explicit statement, it can only be found in interpretation manuals. You can excuse the pitcher throwing to F3 when he's away from a base as long as he is close enough to legitimately make a play on the runner. How close is close enough is purely the judgement of the umpire.

Close enough to make a play on the runner or close enough to the base? I mean, here he successfully makes a play on the runner, so I don't think there could be an argument that he was too far from the runner to make a play.

[mstaylor]

He took two steps before he attempted a tag. He made the play at the base.

[Guest]

This balk, in 8.05, falls under a pitcher faking a throw to first. For an explicit statement, it can only be found in interpretation manuals. You can excuse the pitcher throwing to F3 when he's away from a base as long as he is close enough to legitimately make a play on the runner. How close is close enough is purely the judgement of the umpire.

Close enough to make a play on the runner or close enough to the base? I mean, here he successfully makes a play on the runner, so I don't think there could be an argument that he was too far from the runner to make a play.

Close enough to make a play.

F3 here is playing in front of the runner and has to take four steps, two after receiving the ball, before he is able to apply a tag. At most, I would allow a step and a reach from F3. Anything more, I would deem illegal.

A pitcher is always protected from committing a balk in this situation if the throw is deemed to be toward 1B, regardless of where F3 is.

[UMP45]

Remember you have to throw to 1st. The 1st baseman must be "in the neighborhood" of 1st. In the clip he isn't even in the same zip code!

[basejester]

Close enough to make a play.

F3 here is playing in front of the runner and has to take four steps, two after receiving the ball, before he is able to apply a tag. At most, I would allow a step and a reach from F3. Anything more, I would deem illegal.

I think you have a balk any time the pitcher throws anywhere except a base. I mean, if the runner is asleep and F3 makes the tag 6' from first base, that's still a balk. The positioning of the fielder isn't the standard we're judging against.

If I'm reading lips correctly, the defensive manager is arguing that the move is legal because he's making a play, in apparent reference to this:

-----

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

. . .

(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied

base, except for the purpose of making a play;

-----

But this doesn't allow the pitcher to throw anywhere for the purpose of making a play. He can throw only to bases, even an unoccupied base (provided he's making a play). In this case, whether or not he's making a play doesn't really seem like a relevant point, since the base is occupied.

[UMP45]

You can throw to the SS or 2nd baseman with a runner at second. Even when they are in their position and not at the base. Or with a runner at 3rd you can throw to the 3rd baseman .

[Jimurray]

Jim Evans Balk video allows throws not exactly to 1B if you think a play is being made.

PBUC and Jim Evans require a throw directly to 1B if no obvious play is on.

Wendlestdet's 2010 WUM says in play P153: R1, no out, 2-1 count. The pitcher, in the Set Position, steps to 1B, and (a) seeing the first baseman playing back, does not complete his throw. (B) throws to the first baseman playing well to the left of the 1B bag. © throws to the first baseman playing weel in front of the 1B bag. (d)throws to the first baseman, initially playing well behind the 1B bag, but makes catch while making a play on R1 back into 1B. (e) throws to and beyond the 1B bag when the first baseman is not near the bag to make the play.

Paraphrasing the WUM: (a)(b)and © are balks.

(d) is not a balk if the umpire believes the throw is to 1B.

(e) is not a balk.

Evans video demos seem to allow more leeway in where the throw is caught.

[renegadewolf]

MLBUM

8.05(a) The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base. However there is no violation if the pitcher throws the ball directly to first base in this situation. Also note there is no violation if the pitcher attempts a pickoff at second or third and throws to an infielder who is in front of or behind either of those bases.

[basejester]

You can throw to the SS or 2nd baseman with a runner at second. Even when they are in their position and not at the base. Or with a runner at 3rd you can throw to the 3rd baseman .

I find this is a very frustrating part of the ruleset to understand.

--------------

8.01 . . .

(B) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands

facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the

pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a

complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw

to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot.

------------

But you're saying he can also throw to fielders in order to make a play? What rule supports this?

[Replacematt]

You can throw to the SS or 2nd baseman with a runner at second. Even when they are in their position and not at the base. Or with a runner at 3rd you can throw to the 3rd baseman .

I find this is a very frustrating part of the ruleset to understand.

--------------

8.01 . . .

( B) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands

facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the

pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a

complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw

to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot.

------------

But you're saying he can also throw to fielders in order to make a play? What rule supports this?

The fact that it's not prohibited.

The OP is prohibited because the pitcher moved towards first, but didn't throw to first. This is considered a feint to first.

[Mr Umpire]

You can throw to the SS or 2nd baseman with a runner at second. Even when they are in their position and not at the base. Or with a runner at 3rd you can throw to the 3rd baseman .

I find this is a very frustrating part of the ruleset to understand.

--------------

8.01 . . .

( B) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands

facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the

pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a

complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw

to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot.

------------

But you're saying he can also throw to fielders in order to make a play? What rule supports this?

The fact that it's not prohibited.

The OP is prohibited because the pitcher moved towards first, but didn't throw to first. This is considered a feint to first.

That and virtually every interpretation that states it legal. 2B and 3B are treated different than 1B in this regard.

[basejester]

The fact that it's not prohibited.

OK. That makes the whole 8.01 rule section rather pointless.

What prohibits a pitcher from disengaging by stepping forward from the rubber? If he throws the ball to the left fielder, is that OK?

The OP is prohibited because the pitcher moved towards first, but didn't throw to first. This is considered a feint to first.

If he "feints" to first, that means he's attempting to deceive the runner into believing he is throwing to first, but doesn't. That's not at all what is happening here. The pitcher isn't trying to make the runner believe he is throwing to first.

I assume we're talking about this rule:

---------

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(B) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to

complete the throw;

------

Surely, he completed the throw. So, again, I can't see calling a balk based on this rule.

[Replacematt]

The fact that it's not prohibited.

OK. That makes the whole 8.01 rule section rather pointless.

What prohibits a pitcher from disengaging by stepping forward from the rubber? If he throws the ball to the left fielder, is that OK?

No, because there are specifically only three things a pitcher can do from the rubber.

The OP is prohibited because the pitcher moved towards first, but didn't throw to first. This is considered a feint to first.

If he "feints" to first, that means he's attempting to deceive the runner into believing he is throwing to first, but doesn't. That's not at all what is happening here. The pitcher isn't trying to make the runner believe he is throwing to first.

I assume we're talking about this rule:

---------

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

( B) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to

complete the throw;

------

Surely, he completed the throw. So, again, I can't see calling a balk based on this rule.

He did not complete a throw to first base.

[UMP45]

You are making this harder then it is. :shakehead:

[Replacematt]

You are making this harder then it is.

Me or him?

[basejester]

You have to see the problem here.

--------------

8.01 . . .

(B) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands

facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the

pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a

complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw

to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot.

------------

But you're saying he can also throw to fielders in order to make a play? What rule supports this?

The fact that it's not prohibited.

What prohibits a pitcher from disengaging by stepping forward from the rubber? If he throws the ball to the left fielder, is that OK?

No, because there are specifically only three things a pitcher can do from the rubber.