How do you rule the "yellow" on top of the fence?

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

Not similar to foul poles!  If it hits the foul (fair) pole it's a home run even if it bounces back onto the field of play.

Because the foul pole is beyond the fence, the ball therefore left the field in flight. That makes it a home run.

[Mister B]

8 hours ago, Lou B said:

Not similar to foul poles!  If it hits the foul (fair) pole it's a home run even if it bounces back onto the field of play.

Similar in the sense that the rules are the same in every park. 

[Lou B]

My bad, I thought you were inferring the foul pole was the same as a yellow line/cap, it's not.

The foul pole is not "beyond" the fence, it's even/part of the fence only higher.  Technically a ball hitting the foul pole and bouncing back onto the field never left the field in flight!  That said, by rule, it's a home run.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

My bad, I thought you were inferring the foul pole was the same as a yellow line/cap, it's not.

The foul pole is not "beyond" the fence, it's even/part of the fence only higher.  Technically a ball hitting the foul pole and bouncing back onto the field never left the field in flight!  That said, by rule, it's a home run.

What rule is that? But I haven't seen a foul pole who's front edge was in line with the front edge of the playing field fence which defines fair territory. Most of the foul poles I've seen are behind the fence/wall. Other than some non standard fields a ball hitting the foul pole would have passed out of the playing field in flight.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual (pp. 26 and 32):

Dead ball territory is a surface (object or ground) upon which a live ball becomes dead on contact. A line marking DBT is itself DBT. DBT also includes the break (i.e., the slanting portion of a protective screen), dugout steps and interiors, and the foul pole above the fence line. The dugout roof, outside walls, and dugout facing may also be DBT, depending upon the ground rules.

The “foul pole” above the top of the fence line is over fair and dead ball territory, so a batted ball that strikes it is both fair and dead. If an airborne batted ball passes over the fence over fair DBT and strikes DBT it is a home run…

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

My bad, I thought you were inferring the foul pole was the same as a yellow line/cap, it's not.

The foul pole is not "beyond" the fence, it's even/part of the fence only higher.  Technically a ball hitting the foul pole and bouncing back onto the field never left the field in flight!  That said, by rule, it's a home run.

Maybe at your parks but every park I've ever seen the pole is beyond the face of the fence.

[Lou B]

On the fields in my District (and I've been a TD at just about every one of them) the Foul Poles are an Extension of the outfield fence poles, they are not on separate poles beyond/behind the fence.

They look pretty much like this one:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/baseball-outfield-gm182755115-12738319

Of course, if the foul pole is mounted beyond/behind the fence then a ball hitting it has obviously gone over the fence.

[Jimurray]

15 minutes ago, Lou B said:

On the fields in my District (and I've been a TD at just about every one of them) the Foul Poles are an Extension of the outfield fence poles, they are not on separate poles beyond/behind the fence.

YMMV

So what OBR/LL rule makes hitting the foul pole a HR? FED has one but assumes the pole is positioned properly. So hitting an inside the fence pole would be a HR by literal rule except for a 2002 Interp.

[Senor Azul]

2009 Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 18: On a batted ball down the right-field line, the ball bounces over the right fielder's head, and ricochets off the foul pole above the fence and back onto the field. The right fielder retrieves the ball and throws out the batter-runner at second base. The defensive coach says the play should stand since the ball never left the field, while the offensive coach says the out should not stand. RULING: The out will not stand. The hit is considered to be a ground-rule double, since the ball would have bounced over the fence. The ball is dead when it struck the foul pole over the fence. (8-3-3c, 5-1-1f-4) 

[Lou B]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

So what OBR/LL rule makes hitting the foul pole a HR? FED has one but assumes the pole is positioned properly. So hitting an inside the fence pole would be a HR by literal rule except for a 2002 Interp.

The pole isn't inside the fence It's even with the fence.

It's pretty much the same as hitting a ball above the yellow line on a wall.  The ball never went over the fence/wall but it's a home run. 

Same goes for hitting the foul pole above the top of the fence, if the pole wasn't there the ball would obviously go over the fence so it's a home run.

[ArchAngel72]

OK So here's how I understand it.

 

Its part of the fence so if it hits it and bounces back on the field its in play no different than any other part of the fence.

 

However if it hits it and bounces over the fence its a home run.

So now I am wondering why that would not be a ground rule double...

 

Help.. 

[noumpere]

8 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

OK So here's how I understand it.

 

Its part of the fence so if it hits it and bounces back on the field its in play no different than any other part of the fence.

 

However if it hits it and bounces over the fence its a home run.

So now I am wondering why that would not be a ground rule double...

 

Help.. 

From OBR:

FAIR TERRITORY is that part of the playing field within, and
including the first base and third base lines, from home base to the bottom
of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards. All foul lines
are in fair territory.

 

If it bounces back into play, it must have hit the "front" of the line / face edge.  It didn't pass beyond the playing field in flight.

If it bounces over the fence, it must have hit the "top" of the fence -- and was at that point already a homerun; we just couldn't tell which part of the fence it hit until we saw it bounce.

 

 

[ArchAngel72]

1 minute ago, noumpere said:

From OBR:

FAIR TERRITORY is that part of the playing field within, and
including the first base and third base lines, from home base to the bottom
of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards. All foul lines
are in fair territory.

 

If it bounces back into play, it must have hit the "front" of the line / face edge.  It didn't pass beyond the playing field in flight.

If it bounces over the fence, it must have hit the "top" of the fence -- and was at that point already a homerun; we just couldn't tell which part of the fence it hit until we saw it bounce.

 

 

Ohhhh  thank you for that!

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Ohhhh  thank you for that!

I think you were referring to @Lou B's foul poles which are even with the fence. As he said a ball hitting that type of pole above the fence and coming back in directly perpendicular (angular rebounds could be judged as passing the perpendicular extension of the fence) to the fence line would not actually have passed out of the playing field in flight. NFHS makes this ball a HR. The other codes do not address this semantic problem and probably shouldn't. Once headed down that path more questions arise. Should the foul poles, by rule,  be in line or outside the fence? If outside the fence, say six inches as in some MLB stadiums, a ball that hits the foul pole is definitely fair. But a ball that just misses the pole on the foul side might actually have been over fair territory when it passed out of the playing field in flight six inches prior to the pole. Time for a laser beam and video

[Aging_Arbiter]

  TRACK MAN ON THE FOUL POLES!!!

[Rich Ives]

On 7/10/2019 at 3:29 PM, Lou B said:

On the fields in my District (and I've been a TD at just about every one of them) the Foul Poles are an Extension of the outfield fence poles, they are not on separate poles beyond/behind the fence.

They look pretty much like this one:

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/baseball-outfield-gm182755115-12738319

Of course, if the foul pole is mounted beyond/behind the fence then a ball hitting it has obviously gone over the fence.

They're all beyond the fence in my neck of the woods. I haven't beet to WP since the fences were moved back bu I have photo evidence that they were beyond the fence prior to the move.

And all the "similar images" that showed up when I clicked on your link had, when the spot was visible,  the pole behind the fence