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Balk stop / step out of box....


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Jaxrolo's "offsetting penalties" post reminded me of something that happend to me last Saturday in my fall ball double header.

Batter is taking too long receiving signs ...ball is LIVE and he's NOT requested 'time', so , ...I'm letting it go, of course ....well the pitcher is taking signs, then looks towards second before he pitches ....

Batter is NOT in the box yet, ...F1 looks to home as his windup starts and then stops .......

Me: "TIME" .....and I continue...." ok ...first , batter, ...get your sign and get in the box, second, pitcher, if the batter isn't in the box, wait for him or step off" ....everyone ok?? THEM: yes sir ..... OK now, let's play!:shakehead:

Question: Right thing to do, yes?

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Jaxrolo's "offsetting penalties" post reminded me of something that happend to me last Saturday in my fall ball double header.

Batter is taking too long receiving signs ...ball is LIVE and he's NOT requested 'time', so , ...I'm letting it go, of course ....well the pitcher is taking signs, then looks towards second before he pitches ....

Batter is NOT in the box yet, ...F1 looks to home as his windup starts and then stops .......

Me: "TIME" .....and I continue...." ok ...first , batter, ...get your sign and get in the box, second, pitcher, if the batter isn't in the box, wait for him or step off" ....everyone ok?? THEM: yes sir ..... OK now, let's play!:shakehead:

Question: Right thing to do, yes?

I see nothing wrong with that.

I have had to tell batters to get in the box and pitchers to wait.

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Don't let F1 take signs when the batter is not in the box. Tell the catcher to wait for the batter.

Why?

As long as F1 is getting his signs from the rubber, and doesn't begin his delivery to the plate until the batter is settled and ready, I have no problem.

And you have your appropriate Rules set to provide a directed pitch penalty against the batter who doesn't step into the box in a timely manner, after a warning.

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Why?

As long as F1 is getting his signs from the rubber, and doesn't begin his delivery to the plate until the batter is settled and ready, I have no problem.

And you have your appropriate Rules set to provide a directed pitch penalty against the batter who doesn't step into the box in a timely manner, after a warning.

The reason is to prevent a quick pitch. They are very dangerous. And, doing this helps to prevent the issue. We know there are rules to goven if one happens. But, it is best and safest to prevent it. Then, a batter doesn't take a fast ball to the face.

I would rather not see it if I can prevent it. I have only had to call it one time and that is b/c F1 went through the motions very quickly before I could prevent it. I won't allow it when given time to prevent it. This is the safest and best practice. Forget about waiting until a rule kicks in to penalize the action. Prevent it from even becoming an issue.

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The reason is to prevent a quick pitch. They are very dangerous. And, doing this helps to prevent the issue. We know there are rules to goven if one happens. But, it is best and safest to prevent it. Then, a batter doesn't take a fast ball to the face.

I would rather not see it if I can prevent it. I have only had to call it one time and that is b/c F1 went through the motions very quickly before I could prevent it. I won't allow it when given time to prevent it. This is the safest and best practice. Forget about waiting until a rule kicks in to penalize the action. Prevent it from even becoming an issue.

I fully agree on the safety issue. The way I handle this is... if I have a pitcher in a legal windup or set position, and the batter is not yet focused on the pitcher, I'm holding up a hand to F1 directing him not to pitch. If he disregards this and delivers anyway, I'm coming out from behind the catcher, away from the batter and loudly calling and signalling "No pitch!" I am then expressing to F1 my deepest displeasure at not heeding my time signal to allow the batter to get set in the box.

My point is that I'll allow the battery to get/give their signs all they want, batter in or out of the box, but I will not let F1 deliver a pitch until the batter is ready.

Edited by papablue62
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The OP is actually a balk but in fall ball there isn't a big problem with how you handled it. If you balk him I wouuld admonish the pitcher for not paying attention to the batter. But I also let the batter and/or the 3rd base coach to get ther signs in faster.

Papablue's situation is different. First, I rarely hold my hand up at any level, if you do then all you can do is dress the pitcher down. If you don't hold your hand up then you can balk him.

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I fully agree on the safety issue. The way I handle this is... if I have a pitcher in a legal windup or set position, and the batter is not yet focused on the pitcher, I'm holding up a hand to F1 directing him not to pitch. If he disregards this and delivers anyway, I'm coming out from behind the catcher, away from the batter and loudly calling and signalling "No pitch!" I am then expressing to F1 my deepest displeasure at not heeding my time signal to allow the batter to get set in the box.

My point is that I'll allow the battery to get/give their signs all they want, batter in or out of the box, but I will not let F1 deliver a pitch until the batter is ready.

The point is though. If F1 can't get his signs, then he can't blow through your stop sign. It happens that some won't wait on an F2 to get ready. But, fewer do that than not wait on the batter to get ready. If F2 doesn't give signs, then F1 will usually wait until F2 gives a sign. Thus, preventing him from even having the opportunity of throwing the ball.

Stepping out from behind F2 to stop F1 is fine. But, if it can be prevented to even have to take that measure, why not? Encourage F2 to wait will usually encourage F1 to wait. Thus, preempting the whole issue and helping to prevent it from ever happening.

There is no right way to do it. It all falls on F1 paying attention. But, this is just an added measure to help prevent it from happening. That's all. Your way is fine and I do the same. But, I also try to prevent it by getting F2 to wait on the batter as well.

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The reason is to prevent a quick pitch. They are very dangerous. And, doing this helps to prevent the issue. We know there are rules to goven if one happens. But, it is best and safest to prevent it. Then, a batter doesn't take a fast ball to the face.

I would rather not see it if I can prevent it. I have only had to call it one time and that is b/c F1 went through the motions very quickly before I could prevent it. I won't allow it when given time to prevent it. This is the safest and best practice. Forget about waiting until a rule kicks in to penalize the action. Prevent it from even becoming an issue.

what do you say to the coach when he comes out and ask "who the f--k do you think you are telling my pitcher what to do ?? are you the dame coach!!!) that will happen as you move up and do older and better ball (Varsity HS and college) and by the way the coach is right--you have no right to tell the pitcher how or when to take a signal--there are rules and if he does something wrong then and only then do you have the right to inforce the rules but if the pitcher does nothing wrong by rule --say nothing--you will stay out of trouble.

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what do you say to the coach when he comes out and ask "who the f--k do you think you are telling my pitcher what to do ?? are you the dame coach!!!) that will happen as you move up and do older and better ball (Varsity HS and college) and by the way the coach is right--you have no right to tell the pitcher how or when to take a signal--there are rules and if he does something wrong then and only then do you have the right to inforce the rules but if the pitcher does nothing wrong by rule --say nothing--you will stay out of trouble.

I don't think so. Never said to tell F1 when or how he can take signs. I said, like noumpere, to encourage F2 to wait for the batter to get in the box before giving them. I have done enough games to know this isn't true. And, if you have a coach who gets this bent out of shape over preventing a safety issue, odds are he is much worse on other things and won't last long in the game. And, if your F2 is intelligent enough, he will do it or he will let you know that his coach wants him to do it that way (which you won't get from most or all F2's b/c coaches don't teach this in most cases). Smart F2's wait on the batter anyway to keep the batter from seeing their signs. So, Varsity HS and college F2's usually wait if they have been taught correctly to prevent the peeking. This usually occurs in JV or below.

Again, it is an encouragement, not a mandate nor telling them what to do. Waiting to see if he does it without being a little preventative can be dangerous. Just b/c your hand is up or you step out from behind F2 doesn't mean he won't throw the ball anyway.

Oh, and BTW, that is actually not the correct way to handle it either if wanting to be technical. B/c putting your hand up IS calling "Time" and you are not suppose to get out from behind F2 unless FED since a balk is a dead ball. B/c, the ball is still live and if F1 throws it, PU has to wait to see what happens.

So, why not be a little preventative rather than having to "kill" the ball or put the batter in danger to wait and see what happens? Just a thought. And, my answer to any coach after encouraging F2 to wait is "Just preventing a safety issue. I don't want the batter to get a fastball in the face." What do you think the coach will say then? Let him throw it anyway? I doubt it.

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I don't think so. Never said to tell F1 when or how he can take signs. I said, like noumpere, to encourage F2 to wait for the batter to get in the box before giving them. I have done enough games to know this isn't true. And, if you have a coach who gets this bent out of shape over preventing a safety issue, odds are he is much worse on other things and won't last long in the game. And, if your F2 is intelligent enough, he will do it or he will let you know that his coach wants him to do it that way (which you won't get from most or all F2's b/c coaches don't teach this in most cases). Smart F2's wait on the batter anyway to keep the batter from seeing their signs. So, Varsity HS and college F2's usually wait if they have been taught correctly to prevent the peeking. This usually occurs in JV or below.

Again, it is an encouragement, not a mandate nor telling them what to do. Waiting to see if he does it without being a little preventative can be dangerous. Just b/c your hand is up or you step out from behind F2 doesn't mean he won't throw the ball anyway.

Oh, and BTW, that is actually not the correct way to handle it either if wanting to be technical. B/c putting your hand up IS calling "Time" and you are not suppose to get out from behind F2 unless FED since a balk is a dead ball. B/c, the ball is still live and if F1 throws it, PU has to wait to see what happens.

So, why not be a little preventative rather than having to "kill" the ball or put the batter in danger to wait and see what happens? Just a thought. And, my answer to any coach after encouraging F2 to wait is "Just preventing a safety issue. I don't want the batter to get a fastball in the face." What do you think the coach will say then? Let him throw it anyway? I doubt it.

I still do not understasnt where the umpire can tell the catcher( not the pitcher in this case) not to give his signal to the pitcher????That is not our place to tell them not to give signs. And BTW when the umpire steps out from behind the catcher after the ump puts his hand up TIME is called. A umpire can call time at any time. There are right and wrong times to call time(say that fast three times) but when the ump caslls time the basll is dead--but that is getting off the subject--- This is just my opinion--I think as umps we should just ump and do not look for things that do not fall under our job discription. SAFE,OUT,FAIR, FOUL,BALL,STRIKE.

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I still do not understasnt where the umpire can tell the catcher( not the pitcher in this case) not to give his signal to the pitcher????That is not our place to tell them not to give signs. And BTW when the umpire steps out from behind the catcher after the ump puts his hand up TIME is called. A umpire can call time at any time. There are right and wrong times to call time(say that fast three times) but when the ump caslls time the basll is dead--but that is getting off the subject--- This is just my opinion--I think as umps we should just ump and do not look for things that do not fall under our job discription. SAFE,OUT,FAIR, FOUL,BALL,STRIKE.

Again, it is not telling him he can't give signals. It is an encouragement to do it to prevent F1 from quick pitching. There is a difference between saying "Don't give signs until the batter is ready" and "Shouldn't give signs until the batter is ready". He can and will if he feels like it. No one is stopping him but I will do what I can to prevent an injury. The rules are pretty clear about preventing the quick pitch. This is just another tool of how to prevent it.

Again, it is all about safety.

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Again, it is not telling him he can't give signals. It is an encouragement to do it to prevent F1 from quick pitching. There is a difference between saying "Don't give signs until the batter is ready" and "Shouldn't give signs until the batter is ready". He can and will if he feels like it. No one is stopping him but I will do what I can to prevent an injury. The rules are pretty clear about preventing the quick pitch. This is just another tool of how to prevent it.

Again, it is all about safety.

I may be wrong but I know of no rule that prevents a quick pitch--there is a penalty if the pitcher quicks pitches--but what is the rule to prevent him from doing so--by preventing him from quick pitching you are putting the team at bat at a disadvantage becasuse you are not penalizing the defense for doing something wrong. On this subject we must agree to disagree--enjoy the off season

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The OP is actually a balk but in fall ball there isn't a big problem with how you handled it. If you balk him I wouuld admonish the pitcher for not paying attention to the batter. But I also let the batter and/or the 3rd base coach to get ther signs in faster.

Papablue's situation is different. First, I rarely hold my hand up at any level, if you do then all you can do is dress the pitcher down. If you don't hold your hand up then you can balk him.

?... Please let me know the rule on this one.. cause I know the rule says, the batter can't cause a balk, by taking his time..

NCAA rule 9-3-g.

g. Failing to throw to the batter immediately after making any motion with

any part of the body such as the pitcher habitually uses in the delivery;

A.R.—If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates the delivery because the

batter steps out of the box, holds up a hand or uses any other action as if calling time, it

shall not be a balk. The rule has been violated by both the batter and the pitcher, and the

umpire shall call “Time” and begin the play anew.

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?... Please let me know the rule on this one.. cause I know the rule says, the batter can't cause a balk, by taking his time..

NCAA rule 9-3-g.

g. Failing to throw to the batter immediately after making any motion with

any part of the body such as the pitcher habitually uses in the delivery;

A.R.—If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates the delivery because the

batter steps out of the box, holds up a hand or uses any other action as if calling time, it

shall not be a balk. The rule has been violated by both the batter and the pitcher, and the

umpire shall call “Time” and begin the play anew.

This doesn't really apply if the batter is out of the box to start with. It's about stepping out, etc. as the pitcher starts to pitch.

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Jaxrolo's "offsetting penalties" post reminded me of something that happend to me last Saturday in my fall ball double header.

Batter is taking too long receiving signs ...ball is LIVE and he's NOT requested 'time', so , ...I'm letting it go, of course ....well the pitcher is taking signs, then looks towards second before he pitches ....

Batter is NOT in the box yet, ...F1 looks to home as his windup starts and then stops .......

From your OP it seems as if B1 is taking way too long to get into the batter's box. I do not agree with your statement I'm letting it go, of course

Here is the rule

If the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none

of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the

umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch.

You said

Batter is taking too long receiving signs

The FIRST time B1 delays play by taking too long to receive his signs, call TIME and instruct B1 to "get in there" Also, tell B1 to keep at least one foot in the box while getting his signs.

If B1 continues to delay the game then according to rule start awarding strikes.

If you do nothing then get ready for a LOOONG game. There are 'things" we can do to speed the game up and even though it's fall ball doesn't mean we stay there all day long.

Pete Booth

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From your OP it seems as if B1 is taking way too long to get into the batter's box. I do not agree with your statement I'm letting it go, of course

Here is the rule

You said

The FIRST time B1 delays play by taking too long to receive his signs, call TIME and instruct B1 to "get in there" Also, tell B1 to keep at least one foot in the box while getting his signs.

If B1 continues to delay the game then according to rule start awarding strikes.

If you do nothing then get ready for a LOOONG game. There are 'things" we can do to speed the game up and even though it's fall ball doesn't mean we stay there all day long.

Pete Booth

6.02(d) only applies to the National Association (pro minor) leagues. It says so right in the rule. Anyone else would have to specifically adopt it.

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?... Please let me know the rule on this one.. cause I know the rule says, the batter can't cause a balk, by taking his time..

NCAA rule 9-3-g.

g. Failing to throw to the batter immediately after making any motion with

any part of the body such as the pitcher habitually uses in the delivery;

A.R.—If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates the delivery because the

batter steps out of the box, holds up a hand or uses any other action as if calling time, it

shall not be a balk. The rule has been violated by both the batter and the pitcher, and the

umpire shall call “Time” and begin the play anew.

Mazz the way I interpret the OP is that the batter is the one causing the delay (according to the OP batter is taking way too long to get into the box) therefore, the batter's box ruling applies.

Pete Booth

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I will tell you a story about a guy walking through the woods..he comes up to a stick in the trail, and it is huge, and he can lift it out of the way, but one side has all kinds of crap on it, I mean, dog crap, trash, nasty dirt ... the other side has nothing on it....

which side are you gonna grab.. the SH*#ty end or the clean end?

This is a example of grabbing the SH*#ty end of the stick.. Call time and make it a do over or nothing... yes the batter delayed, but the umpire wasnt making him get in right?...then the pitcher is not suppose to pitch the ball.

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Rich is right, the batter wasn't in to begin with so the pitcher stopping is a balk. If he was in and stepped out then it's a do over.

Now if the batter is taking too long to get in the box, tell him to get in. If the coach objects, then explain to him he needs to get signs in faster. Whether a game is timed or not it should have a flow. I understand trying to break a pitcher's rhythm but there still needs to be a flow.

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Rich is right, the batter wasn't in to begin with so the pitcher stopping is a balk. If he was in and stepped out then it's a do over.

Now if the batter is taking too long to get in the box, tell him to get in. If the coach objects, then explain to him he needs to get signs in faster. Whether a game is timed or not it should have a flow. I understand trying to break a pitcher's rhythm but there still needs to be a flow.

mstaylor I will disagree.... the batter wasnt in the Umpire should have never allowed a pitch or attempt to pitch happen... If the batter was not getting in the box after the PU told him, he then can award a strike to the batter for delay, but no way should a pitch have been allowed, nor a balk to be called...

No your awarding the offensive for delaying?

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Rich is right, the batter wasn't in to begin with so the pitcher stopping is a balk. If he was in and stepped out then it's a do over.

Now if the batter is taking too long to get in the box, tell him to get in. If the coach objects, then explain to him he needs to get signs in faster. Whether a game is timed or not it should have a flow. I understand trying to break a pitcher's rhythm but there still needs to be a flow.

It's a "no pitch". To be a pitch it has to be delivered to a batter.

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