Local rules... again

[catoblue]

I'm looking for a little insight here... our local league has their own local rules, one of which is "no infield fly rule".

Is it just me, or does that sound like a direct violation of LL rules. My understanding is that for Majors and Minors Divisions, at least, there are very few rules that are optional, and infield fly ain't one of them. http://ncllbaseball.com/PDFs/2012_LocalRules.pdf (under "Game Play")

I wonder what the reaction in Williamsport would be - would this league keep their charter?

Your thoughts?

[sdix00]

Your DA should put the kibosh on that rule.

IMO, that is an illegal ground rule.

[NoCal Blue]

Unless your league has a written waiver from Williamsport allowing them to ignore that rule, they are in violation. That said, Dix is correct in that your DA should put a stop to it.

I would caution you however from making a federal case out of it. Unless it directly impacts the LL World Series or tarnishes the LL brand in some way, Williamsport is apprehensive to get involved. Most likely, it will be pushed off to the region who in turn pushes it down to the DA. Also, depending on your DA, most will kick it to the league's President where in your case, the issue originated. Just something to keep in mind.

[kylejt]

No problem with killing the IFF in the minors. We keep it in our 9-11 year old division, because many times they can actually catch the ball.

I volunteered to help out in a season ended tourney for little squirts, where the IFF is turned off. WP would have no problem with that, as it's the minors, and it not a safety related issue. If an eight year old can drop a ball and get two, God bless 'em.

But just don't try that with the Majors. No can do, there.

[Rich Ives]

What Kyle said.

[Rich Ives]

Cato - is your site officially dead?

[HokieUmp]

My understanding is that for Majors and Minors Divisions, at least, there are very few rules that are optional, and infield fly ain't one of them. http://ncllbaseball...._LocalRules.pdf (under "Game Play")

Not being familiar with LL, what ARE the optional rules? Out here at the base, they don't call it anything (meaning: Pony, LL, Dixie, USSSA, whatever), and it's just played as "Youth Sports." In the 9-10 group - which I believe is equivalent to LL Minor, it's no D3K, but they DO keep IFF. Worse, never mind it's a closed base, but they don't even allow for advancement on a WP/PB. A kid can only advance on a walk or batted ball. Don't know why. DOES keep the score, down, though.

The 11-12, they bring back stealing, and add the D3K. However, if a kid leaves the base early, he's called out.

I'm guessing that these aren't following the LL rulebook for the respective age group. Not that they claim a LL charter, but it is a strange hybrid of, well, everything.

[SoCal Lurker]

My understanding is that for Majors and Minors Divisions, at least, there are very few rules that are optional, and infield fly ain't one of them. http://ncllbaseball...._LocalRules.pdf (under "Game Play")

Not being familiar with LL, what ARE the optional rules? Out here at the base, they don't call it anything (meaning: Pony, LL, Dixie, USSSA, whatever), and it's just played as "Youth Sports." In the 9-10 group - which I believe is equivalent to LL Minor, it's no D3K, but they DO keep IFF. Worse, never mind it's a closed base, but they don't even allow for advancement on a WP/PB. A kid can only advance on a walk or batted ball. Don't know why. DOES keep the score, down, though.

The 11-12, they bring back stealing, and add the D3K. However, if a kid leaves the base early, he's called out.

I'm guessing that these aren't following the LL rulebook for the respective age group. Not that they claim a LL charter, but it is a strange hybrid of, well, everything.

Those are not close to LL rules. LL closed bases cannot create an out, R just can't advance, except as forced, and there is a wierd way, I believe on an infield grounder, if a runner leaves early and everyone is safe, the run doesn't score -- the runner goes "poof" (try to score that one . . . )

In theory, as I understand it, a local LL can change anything. BUT certain changes require a variance to be granted by the grand-high-mucky-mucks. Other changes are permitted per the rule book by local decision. I'm sure Rich can give a more exhaustive explanation.

[sdix00]

Not counting optional regulations, equipment and field size rules:

4.04 - (Majors and above)Option to implement Continuous Batting Order.

4.10(e) - Option to suspend 10-run rule

5.07 - (Minors) Option to suspend the five-run rule in the last half inning (but NOT the rule stating that once a team has batted through the lineup, inning is over - oversight probably)

6.05(b ) - (Majors) Option to remove the D3K.

LL still seems allow modifications that further promote the purpose of Little League, such as modifying rules to mandate more minimum play.

[mstaylor]

Local options include D3K in majors,ten run rule, CBO, draft options and pitching restrictions, maybe. Other things like dropping IFF, must slides and other stupid things local leagues try to do require a waiver, although it rarely happens.

[mjr_2013]

IFF is an umpires judgement on what an "ordinary effort" is... With some teams and some leagues, there is no such thing... If a league doesn't want it enforced, the league could ask the umpires to be very lienient on the definition.

[HokieUmp]

Those are not close to LL rules. LL closed bases cannot create an out, R just can't advance, except as forced, and there is a wierd way, I believe on an infield grounder, if a runner leaves early and everyone is safe, the run doesn't score -- the runner goes "poof" (try to score that one . . . )

In theory, as I understand it, a local LL can change anything. BUT certain changes require a variance to be granted by the grand-high-mucky-mucks.

Okay, thanks.

Like I said, they've never really stipulated a ruleset. I've worked a handful of games, and just went with OBR and the stuff they handed out as the by-laws. They won't need a waiver from anyone, it would seem, since they don't claim to BE with anyone. In fact, I'd bet good money that if I were to ask anyone that runs the program about rules, they say, "we play, you know - BASEBALL rules."

The whole 'season' lasts all of two months, and then they move on to other stuff. The kids get to play different sports, which is good, but they don't develop any talent at any of them, near as I can tell.

And while I understand a little why they do it - to get the kids variety and all that - I would bet it you look at the different sports during the year, it's not all the same kids at each sport, so why not stop worrying about overlap? The kids that would be interested in more than one sport would figure out how to juggle them - they do it the States, don't they?

And, selfishly, the less they play, the fewer games I get to work.

[cyclonehokiece]

IFF is an umpires judgement on what an "ordinary effort" is... With some teams and some leagues, there is no such thing... If a league doesn't want it enforced, the league could ask the umpires to be very lienient on the definition.

This is the hardest thing at this level, since ordinary effort can vary widely. And yes, if the league doesn't want it overenforced, just tell the umpires that you have to be close to 100% sure it should be caught very easily.