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The bus ran me over and backed up too.


Daniel
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I was working with an a gentlemen several months ago during a local tourney. I've known him for awhile, and he serves as a softball assignor and HS rule interpreter. I must say, he has changed since the last time we've worked together.

I had the plate for 2 of 4 that day. It was not good 16U ball - game was absolutely horrendus, and my patience was wearing out on a 100+ degree afternoon. :mad:

To setup the scenario, right handed batter's box was mostly gone. One particular batter came up early in the game, and decided to setup WAY too far back - I could tell by looking at the other box the batter's back foot was about 2-3 feet out. The catcher complained about it, and I instructed the batter to move up. Few innings later, same batter. Set up OK. Pitch comes in and the batter had taken a BIG step back (out of the box) and almost clocks the catcher (set up legally) in the back of the head with the swing. Made contact with the ball, and I called the batter out. (Right/wrong/indifferent) In this case, I called it not because the batter gained an advantage, but for safety issues. The batter didn't seem to get it that you can't just setup anywhere. ;)

Of course OC gripes and argues I can't call an out because the line has been rubbed out. I explain what happened and why I called it, and finally got him settled and he walked away. Then my partner who has walked in from C calls me over. He tells me I'm going to be mad, but he's taken that one away from me. He calls both managers out to HP and explains that A. He is over-ruling me and B. there will be noone called out for being out of the box. :o He placed BR back on 1B.

I could NOT focus for games 3 & 4. I was royally pi$$ed.

Finally after a long day, I tore him a new one.

Me: "You made me look like a complete a$$."

Him: "Oh, well I think I saved you a$$ from ejecting him. The call was complete BS and we don't make those calls when teams pay all this money to play in tournaments." Sadly, he has used the money excuse in the past for keeping coaches in the game that really need to be ejected.

"I don't care how much money they pay, they paid to play, not to do as they please."

"Well perhaps that it part of your problem - you don't care!"

Then I asked him, "So you think it is okay to overrule your partner?"

He replied yes, and that he would to that to anyone else on the field. :D

I told him we do NOT "over rule" each other on the field. He ends the conversation with "OK, and you will not be working in any of the other tournaments I assign." (He didn't assign this one, but assigns others in a different organization.) :stir

Your thoughts. :HD:

Edited by Daniel
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Since the batters box was gone I would have drawn a line with a bat to let this guy know his boundries. I have had to do this in the past and it seemed to have worked.

+1.

And using the left hand batter's box line as a guide was a very good idea.

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Drawing a line is what Joe West did the other day. The batter was setting deep and Joe took the bat and used it to measure from the plate to the back of the box. If he has been told and he does it and contacts the ball then he is out. Your partner was an insufferable ass.

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I wouldn't mind not working any tournaments this guy assigns.

+1. And the OP might want to ensure that other umpires in that area have heard the story.

This "gentleman" *cough, cough* might want to read 9.02© (or 10-1-4 in FED, if applicable).

Preferably, both of these rules could be printed out and stapled to his forehead. :o

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#1 Where does the base ump get off over ruling the plate ump. ITS NOT HIS CALL

#2 Does he want to accept the liability after over ruling the plate ump by changing the rules of baseball the next time the batter comes up and smashes the catcher in the head causing major or minor injury. Because all it would take is for the catcher or his parents to sue. What would your defense be..... the team paid a lot of money to play in this tournament. That defense wont go very far in a court of law, and I'm sure you will be paying a lot more money than the team paid to play. I would have walked after the game and I'm thinking maybe after he over ruled me.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Were it me, this "partner" had better have his plate gear nearby, because he's finishing the game and the rest of that day's games solo.

I'm also letting all of my buddies that might work for this douche know how he operates by sharing this little story - so they can make an informed decision on working (or more likely not working) with him.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Your partner was out of line. That is your call all the way. Just because there is no line for a batters box does not mean there is no batters box. The batters box is always there - 3ft in front of and 3ft behind the center of home plate and 4 feet wide. Your partner can not see the batters foot position from the C post as well as you can.

I don't think it would be a good idea to call a batter OUT for being out of the box (with no lines) if you are not sure (border line). If you know he is a foot out of the box - I say get that OUT every time. You should be ready to explain that to the coach though when he comes out though. Keeping your eye on the foot print or a reference spot in the dirt will help.

There are many times in a two man crews where you are not be able to get in the best position to make the call. When that happens and the coach wants you to get help from your partner - ask your partner - he may have had a better angle. However, because you are asking you partners opinion does not mean it is now your partners call. If the call is originally yours it remains yours. Take what your partner says into account, and make your decision.

I have been in a situation where I was over ruled by the director of the tournament on a baseball field - so I know how you feel. He said I was not allowed to eject a coach after I ejected him.

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I have been in a situation where I was over ruled by the director of the tournament on a baseball field - so I know how you feel. He said I was not allowed to eject a coach after I ejected him.

Did you turn around and leave the field? I would have.

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This reminds me of a situation I was in once. Although it was not during a baseball game.

I was calling a YMCA tackle football game. Semi-finals for the 12U division, so these boys are decent and some of them are bigger and can lay some hits. It's four officials on the field, as it is just kids. Well, our "white hat" has a reputation of being cocky, and one of the other officials made a call earlier in the game and when he went to tell him what he had, the referee over rules him (definitely not in any position to see the foul). Well, towards the end of the 1st half I have a pretty intense block in the back on a kickoff return, where the boy ends up taking it to the house. I go to tell him what I have and the spot and all, and he asks, "Was it a bad foul, cause I feel it was far enough away from the ball, we're just not going to call it". He procedes to pull out his flag to wave off the penalty when I tell him that if he waves the flag off, he'll be spending the rest of the game trying to cover the sidelines as well cause I'm gone. I'm not out there to judge whether or not the fouls are severe enough to be called, rather just to call the fouls. Needless to say, he signaled the penalty and we walked it off.

So, only thing I think you did wrong in the OP was to not leave the guy stranded with the rest of that game. I can completely see how that type of thing could get you off your game and really frustrate you. Kudos for sticking in there and finishing it though!

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If you know he is a foot out of the box - I say get that OUT every time. You should be ready to explain that to the coach though when he comes out though. Keeping your eye on the foot print or a reference spot in the dirt will help.

Gonna have to be more than a foot for me to call it without lines. Also, I'm not keeping my eye on a batter's foot -- I've got a baseball being thrown at me with a kid attempting to catch it. I think I'll watch it.

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I feel the plate umpire should keep an eye on the batters foot if he or she knows it is an issue. Even without lines.

Whether you notice it or it is brought to your attention - watching the foot is the plate umpires responsibility. I do not watch the foot every batter. However, the catcher has just as much of a responsibility to catch the ball as you have to call the pitch. If he can see a foot out of the box you should be able to see the foot out of the box. I watch the foot the best I can behind the plate. As a player more than once the plate umpire told me he had other things to do - that would just piss me off. What if the batter was gaining an advantage.

You are not stickler if you make that call - its a rule, and a coach cannot argue with that. There are many responsibilities that come before watching a foot, but it is still the plate umpires responsibility.

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If he can see a foot out of the box you should be able to see the foot out of the box. I watch the foot the best I can behind the plate. As a player more than once the plate umpire told me he had other things to do - that would just piss me off.

Be a less angry person, then.

The catcher might see a foot out, and yes, he does have the responsibility to catch the ball. But if he doesn't, the game still goes on. If you're the PU, and miss the pitch, because you're sweating a batter, then the game comes to a halt, while everyone's screaming "What's the call?"

If the F2 says the batter is out of the box, you tell him you're watching it. If you need, say to the batter, "start the AB inside the box." Otherwise, leave it.

You are not stickler if you make that call - its a rule, and a coach cannot argue with that. There are many responsibilities that come before watching a foot, but it is still the plate umpires responsibility.

Sure, and if there are no lines, you've now, as they say, "grabbed the SH*#ty end of the stick." That's one of those calls where there'e gray area, so you'd better be certain.

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I agree with you HokieUmp.

P.S. Who is angry

I took the angry part from:

As a player more than once the plate umpire told me he had other things to do - that would just piss me off.

I mean, it might not be what I would say to a catcher, but it's still not something a catcher needs to get pissed off about.

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