Unknown Rules

[maxs]

It was just mentioned, but I think the biggest unknown is that it's a timing play, not a force, when a runner doesn't tag up.

The other one is that the baseline is between the runner and the bag, not a straight line between the bases. I was BU for a LL game once where R2 ran all the way into left field on a grounder to F6 with the infield in, when F6 turned around, thinking he was going to tag the runner, he was 20 feet away, so he got confused and threw late to first. No one understood why I left the kid on third...

[Aging_Arbiter]

You guys talk to baseball parents? Really?

I've spoken to a parent before, but never about umpiring and never, ever between innings about anything involving baseball.

"Do you need some water, Blue?"

[Me] "No, thank you."

That's about all I would ever say to a parent during a game. And if I ever did talk to a parent about baseball, it certainly wouldn't be a woman parent.

I'm sorry if that sounds sexist, but in this great game, I'm a sexist. Most of the rest of the time, woman is superior. Obviously. But when I go onto that field, it's the one place where woman is clearly inferior. Well, behind the wheel of a car makes two places ... my bad.

I can honestly say, I completely understand your line of thinking. I use to think the same way. Now however, if a parent is cordial or asking an honest question, I would definately entertain the conversation (even a brief one at the backstop). Yes, you are in charge on the field.......but let me give you anoter perspective. If you can explain the rules as well as enforce them, you can educate parents. If you can educate parents, they are less likely to give the next umpire a bag of $#!T when a questionable ruling is made. Kevin, if I can make your next game easier by explaining to a parent exactly why little Johnny was called out and what an infield fly rule is in place for, I'm going to do it. Here's hoping your next game goes well!

[jnazz]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but......... infield fly ---- many think the ball is dead.

................. Balk ------- many think the ball is dead.

Also, many think that if a pithched ball bounces and hits the batter, the batter doesn't get first.

[ukce1861]

Now however, if a parent is cordial or asking an honest question, I would definately entertain the conversation (even a brief one at the backstop).

Let me preface this by saying, if it works for you, good for you, but... The problem hear is yeah, it might start off cordial and it might be with one parent, but what if that parent gets ugly or another joins? Now, you're in a hostile situation where you shouldn't have even gotten involved... I've seen too many people go from nice to nasty...just that quick. In my opinion, no need to take the chance and put myself in a potentially bad situation.:D

[mstaylor]

I had never seen a dropped ball on the rubber until a couple of years ago. I was working an adult regional and it happened twice in one game, once for each side.

Many believe there has to contact for either interference or obstruction.

[yawetag]

I had never seen a dropped ball on the rubber until a couple of years ago. I was working an adult regional and it happened twice in one game, once for each side.

Many believe there has to contact for either interference or obstruction.

I had one in my first high school game behind the plate.

[willv28]

IFF is huge around here for not being understood. I had a game where the defense thought the ball was dead and all kinds of other things that made no sense. Also, recently I was asked why IFF wasn't called on a foul ball. I said, one, it'd be IFF, if fair, two, the play wasn't ordinary effort, three, the ball was hit extremely foul, no possibility it would be fair even if it was caught, which it was.

Thinking contact has to occur on OBS/INT and the runner has to "avoid" the fielder who is just standing around picking their nose. Or in the case I had, F3 standing directly next to the bag, just off by a few feet. Setting himself up for OBS. Then the runner leaves on the hit, tries to go around F3, trips over F3's feet who was just standing there so there was contact anyway, but he was OBS by the fielder anyway. I call the OBS. Coach comes out and argues and asks two things, one "Why did you wait until the end of the play to call it?" I informed him it wasn't that kind of OBS, no play was being made on the runner so it's delayed dead ball. If he was paying attention, he would have noticed the initial call. Second was, "My fielder was 5 feet off the bag. He had to avoid him. That's INT". His action OBS the runner, he wasn't fielding the ball, he didn't have the ball or was making a play so how could the runner interfere. Heck the ball was hit to the outfield and the OBS was the only reason he was thrown out at 2nd.

[tommy]

I cant believe no one has got this one yet. the most unknown rule in baseball is that a called strike three realy was a strike and you son realy is out. SO STOP YELLING AT ME.

[spiritumpa]

the one that alway makes them scratch there heads--runner on first or first and third, the ball is hit to an infielder(line drive or pop up) ball hits the glove and infielder drops the ball--result is dead ball batter out--you are sure to get "in all my years I never seen that called".

[Rich Ives]

the one that alway makes them scratch there heads--runner on first or first and third, the ball is hit to an infielder(line drive or pop up) ball hits the glove and infielder drops the ball--result is dead ball batter out--you are sure to get "in all my years I never seen that called".

Ther are more situations where it applies BUT the drop must be judged as intentional. An "oops" doesn't cause the rule to kick in.

6.05 A batter is out when _

(l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;

APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

[spiritumpa]

Ther are more situations where it applies BUT the drop must be judged as intentional. An "oops" doesn't cause the rule to kick in.

6.05 A batter is out when _

(l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;

APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

if the dropping of the ball puts the base runners at risk the batter is out--take the situation bases loaded no outs and a line drive to the firstbaseman and he dropes the ball because he can not handle to ball--the ball falls at the first basemans feet--he could have a easy triple play. You will have a SHXT house if you let the triple play stand and the coach of the team at bat knows the rules(that would be a supprise)--if you call the basll dead this will save you --say the fielder is good at the droping of the ball why try to read into the mind of the fielder--in my opinion I will alway call the batter out and the ball droped on purpuse so I will alway use the rule to my favor.

[Rich Ives]

if the dropping of the ball puts the base runners at risk the batter is out--take the situation bases loaded no outs and a line drive to the firstbaseman and he dropes the ball because he can not handle to ball--the ball falls at the first basemans feet--he could have a easy triple play. You will have a SHXT house if you let the triple play stand and the coach of the team at bat knows the rules(that would be a supprise)--if you call the basll dead this will save you --say the fielder is good at the droping of the ball why try to read into the mind of the fielder--in my opinion I will alway call the batter out and the ball droped on purpuse so I will alway use the rule to my favor.

What part of "intentionally" escapes you?

You'd lie? Not a good admission from an official.

[spiritumpa]

What part of "intentionally" escapes you?

You'd lie? Not a good admission from an official.

of coure I would not lie---that is a stupid thing to say--but it seems to me by your post and replay that you are a rule book ump--just answer my question about the example I gave you in my post,would you would let the triple play stand????as a ump you can know the rules or you can know the rule and know how to ump--witch one are you???

[Rich Ives]

of coure I would not lie---that is a stupid thing to say--but it seems to me by your post and replay that you are a rule book ump--just answer my question about the example I gave you in my post,would you would let the triple play stand????as a ump you can know the rules or you can know the rule and know how to ump--witch one are you???

If the drop was unintentional - yes.

Besides - you have to call it "instantly" so you don't know the outcome at decision time anyhow.

[spiritumpa]

If the drop was unintentional - yes.

Besides - you have to call it "instantly" so you don't know the outcome at decision time anyhow.

how could you tell if it was intentional or not --can you read the fielders mind(or are you lying about knowing for sure)--you always kill the ball--learn the game not just the rules.

[carolinablue]

When I used to coach, I always hated to have the bases loaded. I would much rather have 2nd and 3rd. With em' loaded there is too many ways for the defense to get us out, and line drives are very hazardous to the runners. If a batter hits a line drive with the bases loaded and it deflects off a fielders glove and they are able to turn two or three, well that's a tough break but it has to be an intentional drop to make a call on it.

Most youth fielders can't think fast enough on a line drive to intentionally drop a liner and if they do, I think it would be obvious.

[Rich Ives]

how could you tell if it was intentional or not --can you read the fielders mind(or are you lying about knowing for sure)--you always kill the ball--learn the game not just the rules.

An intentional drop is usually pretty obvious. An accidental drop is usually pretty obvious. You are presuming intent only because you think it prevents some unfair advantage, not because you accurately judged the situation. You'll catch he!! for assuming from anyone with a clue.

I just turned 66. I think I've been around long enough to know the game.

[UmpTTS43]

how could you tell if it was intentional or not --can you read the fielders mind(or are you lying about knowing for sure)--you always kill the ball--learn the game not just the rules.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. You have to judge it an intentional drop. As stated before, the fielder, by his actions, will let you know what his intent is. Just because the fielder misplays or muffs it does not mean it is automatically dead. Just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you can JMSU. Did I mention that you were wrong?

[24sdad]

Batted ball hits the plate and dribbles into the infield...now depending upon whether BR is out or safe at 1B will decide which HC complains that a ball that hits the plate first is a foul ball. Had three or four of those this past season.

[willv28]

Batted ball hits the plate and dribbles into the infield...now depending upon whether BR is out or safe at 1B will decide which HC complains that a ball that hits the plate first is a foul ball. Had three or four of those this past season.

Few games go by where at least one batted ball doesn't bounce off the plate. Never have I had it questioned. But I did have one that bounced off the plate and I had it questioned that it should be an IFF because "It bounced higher than the batter's head".

[Aging_Arbiter]

Let me preface this by saying, if it works for you, good for you, but... The problem hear is yeah, it might start off cordial and it might be with one parent, but what if that parent gets ugly or another joins? Now, you're in a hostile situation where you shouldn't have even gotten involved... I've seen too many people go from nice to nasty...just that quick. In my opinion, no need to take the chance and put myself in a potentially bad situation.

I appreciate the understanding in your preface. I guess it is a little easier when you're in a rather small town and just about everyone knows everyone at the ball field. It's funny how being the umpire in chief of a local little league for 10 years, tends to make your games go a little smoother. Yes, I've sat on protest commitee and in meetings for reviewing a manager/coaches actions while on the field. Maybe they have already heard from years past that I just won't put up with their S***, and they'd rather try and take advantage of someone else. Now I'm not saying I'm the leagues gift of greatness, but several years back (7 maybe) I had my only ejection. It just so happend that the coach was the VP of another division. When everyone saw/heard it, the public opinion of the "good 'ole boy" network on our BOD went right out the window. Pivitol moment? Perhaps.

[yawetag]

You will have a SHXT house if you let the triple play stand and the coach of the team at bat knows the rules

No. If the coach knows the rules, he won't come out to argue -- unless he felt the fielder intentionally dropped the ball.

A bit of advice: Know your enemy before you attack.

[JaxRolo]

If the drop was unintentional - yes.

Besides - you have to call it "instantly" so you don't know the outcome at decision time anyhow.

+1 If the drop was unintentional - yes.

+1 you have to call it instantly.

I have to agree with Rich on this.

[noumpere]

you always kill the ball--learn the game not just the rules.

1) No, you don't. Wasn't there a play in major league baseball earlier this year just like this? (Maybe I'm thinking of something else).

2) Learn the rules, not just your concept of what is fair.

[yawetag]

1) No, you don't. Wasn't there a play in major league baseball earlier this year just like this? (Maybe I'm thinking of something else).

You're probably thinking about the looper that F4 allowed to fall. It was during an IFF situation.

Another thing to remember is that the intentional drop can only occur if the fielder touches the ball before it bounces.