How to handle this situation

[SAB_UIC_TX]

How do you handle this, your partner makes a serious gaff on a play applying a rule and is heading to an ejection, he's adamant he's right, coach is arguing asking him to consult you and he's refusing. You know he's dead wrong.......what do you do?

[Umpire in Chief]

Your partner is going to have to die on the vine unless he goes to you. Many guys have a "I've got info" signal they use to let their partner know they have something they may want to consider.

You can not go in there and over rule him, he needs to come to you.

It's tough to watch a partner go down that road.

[UmpTTS43]

If he misapplied a rule, you should have met with him before the coach came out. Misapplying a rule is different than missing a call. As officials and arbiters ot the game, you have a duty to at least get together. Once you conference, he may or may not change his ruling. If there is an assigned crew chief, he can overrule his partner when it comes to rule applications. Like it or not, if a rule is misapplied, it is perceived, and rightfully so, that the crew got it wrong, not one umpire.

[UmpJeff]

Your partner is going to have to die on the vine unless he goes to you. Many guys have a "I've got info" signal they use to let their partner know they have something they may want to consider.

You can not go in there and over rule him, he needs to come to you.

It's tough to watch a partner go down that road.

UIC took took the words right out of my fingers, er, mouth...

[NWA_UMP]

I agree with UIC. I have seen similar situations and just watched in horror as my partner is verbally berated from the 3rd base box... It was a JV High School game and the Varsity coach was with the team. Coach is very well respected but he is also an a$$ at times. Coach never said anything over the line just went on for 3 innings about the call. Kept asking how he could make that call. Partner would not ask for help at the time even though I gave him our help signal...he was sure....I felt terrible for him but got over it.

If you want yelled at less...make better calls...

[UmpTTS43]

Coach never said anything over the line just went on for 3 innings about the call. Kept asking how he could make that call. Partner would not ask for help at the time even though I gave him our help signal...he was sure....I felt terrible for him but got over it.

If you want yelled at less...make better calls...

That is going over the line. No one should be allowed to bitch about a call once it's over let alone for 3 innings. If this is me and my partner was new or less experienced, I'm handling it. If my partner is experienced, I may still handle it. Even though my partner is willing to listen to it, I'm not. You need to handle your business and if you can't, I may. Once the play is over and the complaining starts, it now becomes a crew situation, not an individual situation.

[MidAmUmp]

Step in.

If you know he's 100% wrong and it's heading for an ejection and/or protest, you need to step in. Tell the coach, "Just a second, let me talk to him for a second and find out what he's got." He has to change the call, but you need to let him know you're 100% he's kicked it. If he doesn't heed your advice, then he's on his own. But you have to try to stop it.

A few years ago an crew during an NCAA regional kicked a base award and cost a team a game. One guy on the crew (the rookie) knew it was wrong, but didn't step up and say anything. All 4 lost future post season assignments because of it.

KEY POINTS -

It must be a PROTESTABLE (not judgment) Call.

You MUST BE 100% sure he's wrong.

You're not changing his call.

You're giving him information.

[Haid D' Salaami]

A crew in the Minors I believe AA missapplied a rule and it cost them there jobs... It almost hapen in a Big College Conference last season..... just like MidampUmp said.. if it is not a judgement call..i.e.. safe, out, fair, foul.... you should step in..

[mstaylor]

Coach never said anything over the line just went on for 3 innings about the call. Kept asking how he could make that call. Partner would not ask for help at the time even though I gave him our help signal...he was sure....I felt terrible for him but got over it.

If you want yelled at less...make better calls...

That is going over the line. No one should be allowed to bitch about a call once it's over let alone for 3 innings. If this is me and my partner was new or less experienced, I'm handling it. If my partner is experienced, I may still handle it. Even though my partner is willing to listen to it, I'm not. You need to handle your business and if you can't, I may. Once the play is over and the complaining starts, it now becomes a crew situation, not an individual situation.

Whether you step in or not depends on your crew and game situation. I have handled it both ways and it depends on the situation. However, once it's over if the coach continues to complain, especially in a future inning, then you need to step in. Just tell the coach that it's enough, dump him if need me.

I had a season where I tossed probably 20 or 25 game participants. Many were coving my partner's butt.

[Fittske24]

KEY POINTS -

It must be a PROTESTABLE (not judgment) Call.

You MUST BE 100% sure he's wrong.

You're not changing his call.

You're giving him information.

+1

Protests should be avoided at all costs especially when you are 100% sure the calling umpire is wrong on a rule enforcement.

[mjr_2013]

Only time I've ever had a situation like this come up was when a partner of mine (great guy) was having a bad day... He had missed a couple judgement calls, but I had stood beside him getting the coaches away, helping him out...

The play I was able to use this on though was when a batter was hit in the hands by the ball as he swung... He (the PU) sent the kid to 1st, but before the fielding manager could come argue, I beckoned my partner to me and met him halfway.

Me: Did the ball hit him in the hands?

PU: Yeah, it hit him as he swung.

Me: Alright, the rule for that is that it is a strike because he swung even though it hit him.

PU: You sure?

Me: Positive, it's one of those old myths.

PU: Alright, you had 2 strikes, correct?

Me: Yep, so that's strike 3. Go ahead and make the call.

He made the call, both managers understood, we were happy, life went on.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

Thanks for all the feedback. I asked because I've had this happen and didn't have a good point of reference to go back to and when to step in. There are a few guys I have worked with, and this is the exception not the rule, that feel they are more experienced and expect you to do things their way, don't reverse a call on them, if they call ball on a half swing you should call it that way too. I've been told between innings after calling a strike on a half swing that I better get it together and back this guy up, I'm making him look bad and he won't have it.

I like the point about bein protestable, that one goes in the vault.

[NWA_UMP]

Coach never said anything over the line just went on for 3 innings about the call. Kept asking how he could make that call. Partner would not ask for help at the time even though I gave him our help signal...he was sure....I felt terrible for him but got over it.

If you want yelled at less...make better calls...

That is going over the line. No one should be allowed to bitch about a call once it's over let alone for 3 innings. If this is me and my partner was new or less experienced, I'm handling it. If my partner is experienced, I may still handle it. Even though my partner is willing to listen to it, I'm not. You need to handle your business and if you can't, I may. Once the play is over and the complaining starts, it now becomes a crew situation, not an individual situation.

Whether you step in or not depends on your crew and game situation. I have handled it both ways and it depends on the situation. However, once it's over if the coach continues to complain, especially in a future inning, then you need to step in. Just tell the coach that it's enough, dump him if need me.

I had a season where I tossed probably 20 or 25 game participants. Many were coving my partner's butt.

This was a JV game...varsity coach is with the team. Coach is very well respected and understands the game. My partner kicked the call big time...nothing riding on this game, so I let it go.

Situation: R1 1out. B/R hits ground ball to F4 near the bag. F4 gloves and steps towards 2nd but never touches the bag. Tags R1 on shoulder and throws to F3 for the DP. Partner calls R1 safe and B/R out at 1st. My partner has a reputation for being much better in own mind than on field skills. Coach never leaves to box...he is on OFFENSE!!!! The call is in his favor but he asks loudly in a friendly tone...

Coach: How can you make that call?

U2:Didn't touch the bag...

Coach: You're right he tagged him. Would you go to your partner for help?

U2: No, I saw the whole play.

Coach: You're kidding, right?

U2: No coach I'm not...I saw the whole play.

The defensive coach is listening and can’t believe that A: the opposing coach is barking at the call, B: my partner won't ask for help...there is not much either can do.

We play on and I let him take the next two innings of “I still can't believe you made that call" It was never said in an angry tone...it was said in a loud speaking voice. U2 at this point is just stonewalling the coach...won't look at him, won't respond...nothing from U2.

He got what he deserved. In post game he made a comment about how bad the coach was...I flatly told him he blew the call and went home. I called our supervisor on the way home and he contacted the coach in question. My partner has never worked anything higher than Fresh/Soph games since....

[mstaylor]

Only time I've ever had a situation like this come up was when a partner of mine (great guy) was having a bad day... He had missed a couple judgement calls, but I had stood beside him getting the coaches away, helping him out...

The play I was able to use this on though was when a batter was hit in the hands by the ball as he swung... He (the PU) sent the kid to 1st, but before the fielding manager could come argue, I beckoned my partner to me and met him halfway.

Me: Did the ball hit him in the hands?

PU: Yeah, it hit him as he swung.

Me: Alright, the rule for that is that it is a strike because he swung even though it hit him.

PU: You sure?

Me: Positive, it's one of those old myths.

PU: Alright, you had 2 strikes, correct?

Me: Yep, so that's strike 3. Go ahead and make the call.

He made the call, both managers understood, we were happy, life went on.

I was in that situation, nothing varsity game, visiting coach getting killed. Batter swings and gets hit in the hands. PU calls foul, I know he smoked the call, I am cringing but didn't say anything. The coach starts in on the hands are part of the bat crap. The PU comes to me to discuss it. I explain it is a dead ball, swung strike and third strike. Coach had a meltdown.

Thanks for all the feedback. I asked because I've had this happen and didn't have a good point of reference to go back to and when to step in. There are a few guys I have worked with, and this is the exception not the rule, that feel they are more experienced and expect you to do things their way, don't reverse a call on them, if they call ball on a half swing you should call it that way too. I've been told between innings after calling a strike on a half swing that I better get it together and back this guy up, I'm making him look bad and he won't have it.

I like the point about bein protestable, that one goes in the vault.

If guys are telling you to back them on anything, especially check swings, then they are old and using bad mechanics. Take what they say and take little to heart, most will be wrong.

[Richvee]

Only time I've ever had a situation like this come up was when a partner of mine (great guy) was having a bad day... He had missed a couple judgement calls, but I had stood beside him getting the coaches away, helping him out...

The play I was able to use this on though was when a batter was hit in the hands by the ball as he swung... He (the PU) sent the kid to 1st, but before the fielding manager could come argue, I beckoned my partner to me and met him halfway.

Me: Did the ball hit him in the hands?

PU: Yeah, it hit him as he swung.

Me: Alright, the rule for that is that it is a strike because he swung even though it hit him.

PU: You sure?

Me: Positive, it's one of those old myths.

PU: Alright, you had 2 strikes, correct?

Me: Yep, so that's strike 3. Go ahead and make the call.

He made the call, both managers understood, we were happy, life went on.

I was in that situation, nothing varsity game, visiting coach getting killed. Batter swings and gets hit in the hands. PU calls foul, I know he smoked the call, I am cringing but didn't say anything. The coach starts in on the hands are part of the bat crap. The PU comes to me to discuss it. I explain it is a dead ball, swung strike and third strike. Coach had a meltdown.

Thanks for all the feedback. I asked because I've had this happen and didn't have a good point of reference to go back to and when to step in. There are a few guys I have worked with, and this is the exception not the rule, that feel they are more experienced and expect you to do things their way, don't reverse a call on them, if they call ball on a half swing you should call it that way too. I've been told between innings after calling a strike on a half swing that I better get it together and back this guy up, I'm making him look bad and he won't have it.

I like the point about bein protestable, that one goes in the vault.

If guys are telling you to back them on anything, especially check swings, then they are old and using bad mechanics. Take what they say and take little to heart, most will be wrong.

I've had a few games with these "old guys" who have pretty much told me pre-game to back them up on everything. Is there anything like "umpire etiquette" where me, being the new guy,( I've only been at this for 3 years now, and this was only my 2nd doing HS), agree and back him on everything? Or be the "rebel" and call what I see on something like a check swing when asked?

[mstaylor]

Only time I've ever had a situation like this come up was when a partner of mine (great guy) was having a bad day... He had missed a couple judgement calls, but I had stood beside him getting the coaches away, helping him out...

The play I was able to use this on though was when a batter was hit in the hands by the ball as he swung... He (the PU) sent the kid to 1st, but before the fielding manager could come argue, I beckoned my partner to me and met him halfway.

Me: Did the ball hit him in the hands?

PU: Yeah, it hit him as he swung.

Me: Alright, the rule for that is that it is a strike because he swung even though it hit him.

PU: You sure?

Me: Positive, it's one of those old myths.

PU: Alright, you had 2 strikes, correct?

Me: Yep, so that's strike 3. Go ahead and make the call.

He made the call, both managers understood, we were happy, life went on.

I was in that situation, nothing varsity game, visiting coach getting killed. Batter swings and gets hit in the hands. PU calls foul, I know he smoked the call, I am cringing but didn't say anything. The coach starts in on the hands are part of the bat crap. The PU comes to me to discuss it. I explain it is a dead ball, swung strike and third strike. Coach had a meltdown.

Thanks for all the feedback. I asked because I've had this happen and didn't have a good point of reference to go back to and when to step in. There are a few guys I have worked with, and this is the exception not the rule, that feel they are more experienced and expect you to do things their way, don't reverse a call on them, if they call ball on a half swing you should call it that way too. I've been told between innings after calling a strike on a half swing that I better get it together and back this guy up, I'm making him look bad and he won't have it.

I like the point about bein protestable, that one goes in the vault.

If guys are telling you to back them on anything, especially check swings, then they are old and using bad mechanics. Take what they say and take little to heart, most will be wrong.

I've had a few games with these "old guys" who have pretty much told me pre-game to back them up on everything. Is there anything like "umpire etiquette" where me, being the new guy,( I've only been at this for 3 years now, and this was only my 2nd doing HS), agree and back him on everything? Or be the "rebel" and call what I see on something like a check swing when asked?

Do most of your assoc go with what you have? If so and these are a few dinosaurs, then just do it as you normally do it. If they complain then tell them that most of the guys do it differently and you are so used to doing it that way you forgot.

[Richvee]

Yeah, basically one or 2 dinosaurs. I've called strikes from the bases on appealed checked swings with these guys and gotten the "evil glare". I laughed it off (on the inside), and apologized after the game the one time it was brought up to me. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't breaking some kind of "unwritten umpire code" :unsure:

[mstaylor]

Once upon a time there was a whole convoltuted system for checking strikes and other questions. Something along,"If I say Did he go, Mike" then stick with me. If he didn't add the first name give him what I had. There were other equally stupid mechanics like that that finally fell by the wayside.

Umpire the way you were taught and the hell with one or two knuckleheads that won't change with the times.

[UmpTTS43]

If you come to me, I will give you what I have. If you might not like the answer, don't ask the question. I haven't had the opportunity to work with someone like that before, but if I did, I have a feeling that my judgement would benefit the defense and would probably ring up a strike every time an appeal was made just to chap his hide.