Disagreements on the internet

[mstaylor]

Many sites over the years have collected a good stable of experts, covering rules from LL to HS to college to pro. As popularity has grown the so did the guys that just want to argue and name call. PIAA and I have lamented many times that we did not have the advantage of the internet or clinics that are out there today. The problem that has plagued every board out there has been the inability to discuss rules and mechanics without getting personal. Every board has reached it's peak and then when the squabbling got too much, guys either just quit coming or they started their own board. Then they would gain popularity and then the squabbling starts and another dies. I believe this why Umpire-Empire exists today. I DO NOT want to see that cycle continue here.

We are umpires and we ar the arbiters on the field. This means we are to know and understand the rules, then by doing so control the game without losing our cool. Then guys get on the internet and want to argue to the point where the tempers flare and the personal attacks start. I do not understand why that happens. Why can we not disagree without attacking each other. Does the anonymity of the internet do something to people's personalities?

There has been some of what I am speaking of and I really would like it not to happen. I will not call any names but I will start contacting guys on PMs. This is not at the request of Warren, it is a personal plea to keep the board as intended.

[Guest]

Does the anonymity of the internet do something to people's personalities?

Yes. It allows anyone with a monitor or keyboard to walk with a million dollar strut when in reality most are about $950 000 short.

Probably because there are no consequences for acting like an idiot, unlike real life.

[boyinr]

I would strongly agree. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all of the internet mentors that I have had over the last 5 years. You have taught me many things and I have learned a lot but, not nearly everything. I have learned things on this board that would have taken me years to have learned on my own if i learned them at all. I could not even begin to name the names from all that have helped me. Please always remember we are all colleagues here and we log on as often as we do to learn, develop and share our knowledge with others that are as passionate as we are. The day we stop learning is the day we start dying.

A special shout out to Warren and his dedication to our craft.

[D62 blue]

Many sites over the years have collected a good stable of experts, covering rules from LL to HS to college to pro. As popularity has grown the so did the guys that just want to argue and name call. PIAA and I have lamented many times that we did not have the advantage of the internet or clinics that are out there today. The problem that has plagued every board out there has been the inability to discuss rules and mechanics without getting personal. Every board has reached it's peak and then when the squabbling got too much, guys either just quit coming or they started their own board. Then they would gain popularity and then the squabbling starts and another dies. I believe this why Umpire-Empire exists today. I DO NOT want to see that cycle continue here.

We are umpires and we ar the arbiters on the field. This means we are to know and understand the rules, then by doing so control the game without losing our cool. Then guys get on the internet and want to argue to the point where the tempers flare and the personal attacks start. I do not understand why that happens. Why can we not disagree without attacking each other. Does the anonymity of the internet do something to people's personalities?

There has been some of what I am speaking of and I really would like it not to happen. I will not call any names but I will start contacting guys on PMs. This is not at the request of Warren, it is a personal plea to keep the board as intended.

very well said mstaylor , within in my own local groups i have witnessed on a rare occasion , men engage in a serious argument about a mechanic , teaching technique or rule application . i thought it was ridiculous , to take such a great activity as officiating ,and elevate it to the point where the parties involved hold such animosity toward each other or others as the case may be . over a sport ??

marc

[Jeff C.]

Many sites over the years have collected a good stable of experts, covering rules from LL to HS to college to pro. As popularity has grown the so did the guys that just want to argue and name call. PIAA and I have lamented many times that we did not have the advantage of the internet or clinics that are out there today. The problem that has plagued every board out there has been the inability to discuss rules and mechanics without getting personal. Every board has reached it's peak and then when the squabbling got too much, guys either just quit coming or they started their own board. Then they would gain popularity and then the squabbling starts and another dies. I believe this why Umpire-Empire exists today. I DO NOT want to see that cycle continue here.

We are umpires and we ar the arbiters on the field. This means we are to know and understand the rules, then by doing so control the game without losing our cool. Then guys get on the internet and want to argue to the point where the tempers flare and the personal attacks start. I do not understand why that happens. Why can we not disagree without attacking each other. Does the anonymity of the internet do something to people's personalities?

There has been some of what I am speaking of and I really would like it not to happen. I will not call any names but I will start contacting guys on PMs. This is not at the request of Warren, it is a personal plea to keep the board as intended.

You nailed it Mike. The internet allows anonymity. I do more lurking than posting, and I am just amazed at how heated some threads become. Truly amazed. I read this site daily and do appreciate what I have gleaned from it.

[mstaylor]

I am here multiple times a day. I really enjoy the board and I learn as much as I teach.

[catsbackr]

I am as guilty as anyone on this board for getting bent out of shape about conflicting comments. For that, I apologize.

However, what most upsets me and provokes rude comments from me the most, is responses I consider as smart-ass, talking down to me, hitting me with your resume, or holier-than-thou.

This is the best umpire board on the net. I will work to improve.

[ukce1861]

However, what most upsets me and provokes rude comments from me the most, is responses I consider as smart-ass, talking down to me, hitting me with your resume, or holier-than-thou.

Cats,

I understand what you're talking about and agree. However, I would also suggest that you consider that tone and intent can be easily misread on the internet. All of the things you mention may be an attempt to be clear or just a misunderstanding. Obviously, a number of the recent posts clearly seem to be in a negative vein, but it's always something to think about. Perhaps we all need to do a better job giving posters the benefit of the doubt as to intent...

By the way, what "Cats" do you back, if I'm interpreting your name right?

[catsbackr]

Kentucky Wildcat basketball!

[ukce1861]

Kentucky Wildcat basketball!

That's what I figured. I graduated from there in 2003.

Must've been something to be in Tennessee when we finally beat them!

[catsbackr]

Now let's not go too FAR.

I am a huge Tennessee football fan. I also have 2 kids that graduated from UT. I just always like Kentucky basketball for some strange reason.

[mstaylor]

Cats, I understand completely what you are sayng about SA replies or condensending replies. As somebody that survived the early days of umpire boards, I tend to take a breath and instead of lashing back I try to ignore the unpleasant part and stick to subject. Am I always sucessful, not so much, but I try.

I date back to Usenet days, the formation Eteamz and the growth and change of other boards. My point is the early days of the internet was like the old west, very interesting but there were some huge shootouts. Some was informative, but more was just destructive.

The best thing to do is think about what you are posting and think, did this advance the subject or show that I was pissed off at the response. I think we have had a great year here with a ton of growth, members joining regularly, and some really nice upgrades by Warren. I mearly ask that we are good patrons of a great board.

[Umpire in Chief]

One thing I've noticed and maybe its a preception vs reality thing, but the most heated exchanges come this time of year. I've noticed this pre-Umpire-Empire. I think the umpire junkies in us just need a fix and are going through some rough times.

--No comments needed from our SoCal friends ---

[Thunderheads]

This is a great thread! Very 'on-point' and 'value-add'. In the past, I've frequented 2 umpire boards, now, I'm here 99% of the time for the reasons listed in this thread. This board has always had that "welcome" feeling, and I've never really felt looked down upon at all. Let's face it folks, boards like this are for learning, and having fun. Let's do everything we can to keep this board how it is and never let it get combative.

I'm no 'rookie' when it comes to internet forums, and trust me, I've experienced 'battles' before , ....it's no fun, and doesn't help anyone.

Although it's tough to ignore, it's probably best to do that when you encounter something 'SA' in a post. Or, if you wish to not ignore it ....respond to it in a MORE civil way than it was first rendered just to let that certain someone know how it was taken. Usually, this exercise leads to a "ohhh, sorry, I didn't mean it that way"! That's happened to me before, I never realized how something came across until it was pointed out.

Another way to at least attempt to ensure your comments are taken in the proper context, use the smileys. They work, as stupid as some may think they are, they serve a very valuable purpose. They help people to understand your feeling in the words, which we all know is very difficult sometimes!

That is all, ...carry on! :D

[ukce1861]

Now let's not go too FAR.

I am a huge Tennessee football fan. I also have 2 kids that graduated from UT. I just always like Kentucky basketball for some strange reason.

You're dead to me.

[grayhawk]

Jeez, what a worthless thread this is! I can't believe anyone with an IQ above freezing would even think about posting something so idiotic!

I kid! I kid!

Seriously, great thread and I agree that when things start to get heated, it's best to just take a step back and kill 'em with kindness. You get folks from all walks of life on internet discussion forums, and sometimes those personalities just don't mix well. Honestly, umpire boards are pretty tame comapred to some of the sports or political boards I have read/posted on over the years. The great thing about this forum is that pretty much everyone here is an adult, so we don't get the teenage/adolescent factor. The few youngsters we do get are, dare I say it, more mature than your ordinary kid because they chose the dignified avocation of umpiring! We just have to remember that we are all here for similar reasons (mostly to learn and become better umpires, or to help others become better). Often, there are differences in the way things are handled depending on which region of the country, or which country you are from. While it's natural to prefer that everything be done the way we were taught, sometimes there is a better way. The good thing is, we can all choose what we adopt, and what we don't (as long as it's okay with whatever association you are working in).

[Stan W.]

MST nails it as usual....MST and I go back to the old days of mcGriffs and other sites and remember what a mess those became because the sites feeding on each other. The big result of those where that many of the great posters of the day, Carl Childress and Tim C. and others ceased to contribute and we lost vital reseources to make our games better....

We need to keep the site civil at all costs....yes, we are going to answer many of the same questions again and again or start with rudimentary questions from the new guys....but its a resource to all and not just us veterans....

[mstaylor]

Thanks for McGriff reference, I couldn't remember the name. Probably one of the worst flame sites that was started by an official. It could have been a great resource but it turned into a completely worthless site.

[johnnyg08]

There will always be trolls. The important thing is to not feed the trolls. If guys are asking questions, they probably are very sincere about their question.

Try not to get personal and try not to brag about your resume. People will usually figure out how credible you are fairly quickly w/o having to tell us how good you are. Those who don't will miss out on critical information that makes us better umpires.

[Texarkana]

I go to clinics and read a lot of books etc. and like to come on here and read what people have to say. I have noticed through the years that most good umpires are very willing to help people get better and are very professional when doing it. But just like in any thing we participate in real life, there are bad apples that can spoil it for others. I have heard some umpires (not on here) make comments about other guys they have called with and ridicule them. To be honest, most of the time the guys making the comments have a lot to be desired themselves when calling a game. I have called 23 years, have a lot to still learn and also have learned a lot that I am willing to share. Any time you get a lot of tetesterone in one place, watch out. Especially if the person can hide behind a keyboard. I read things on here that I may not agree with but I also have picked up some good points from guys on here. Some were pretty new. Thanks to all for helping me out and I enjoy the site a bunch.

[Thunderheads]

Something I've noticed since this thread was posted ......

MOST of the 'disagreements' stem from someone NOT reading a post carefully, and taking things out of context or too personally.

READ, ...DIGEST .... then respond ;)

[UmpTTS43]

I may READ but I don't DIGRESS. Get a clue.

:cheers:

[Thunderheads]

I may READ but I don't DIGRESS. Get a clue.

:clap:

[yawetag]

I may READ but I don't DIGRESS. Get a clue.

It's the Pause, Read, React of U-E:

Read, Digress, React.

[AJtheUMP]

I would strongly agree. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all of the internet mentors that I have had over the last 5 years. You have taught me many things and I have learned a lot but, not nearly everything. I have learned things on this board that would have taken me years to have learned on my own if i learned them at all. I could not even begin to name the names from all that have helped me. Please always remember we are all colleagues here and we log on as often as we do to learn, develop and share our knowledge with others that are as passionate as we are. The day we stop learning is the day we start dying.

Agreed!