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Change in "plays at the plate" mechanics?


grayhawk

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. I just want to clarify that Adam, the instructor at the clinic said that what they are now teaching at Harry's is 3BLX, and then adjusting towards the first base line if they play develops into a collision. It

This is not true.... I believe you miss heard him... actually they taught us to go to just left of the point of the plate, so you can see the runner touch 3rd.. then adjust to the play...the only time we were actually at the POP was on a time play.

But at school in 2011 they did not teach this.. PBUC is not teaching this either.

He said it was a new mechanic, and that starting at 3BLX is what they will now be teaching. I didn't mis-hear anything. As to your last post (after Matt's), you should re-read his post. He was not saying to take collision plays at 3BLX, but rather move towards the 1B line (not 1BLX) to get the proper angle.

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First base or First base extended, same look opposite sides. Many calls work at 3BLE but if you start there then you have to move 90 degrees either way. POP makes you move half of that. Either works but at our levels we need to be farther away which makes that adjustment longer. Neither mechanic is incorrect, whichever puts you in the right place and you are comfortable with is the mechanic to use. I will continue to teach POP but make them aware that some are using the newer mechanic. I have never insisted that there is one way only to do anything. The thing I always explain is what the accepted positions are in any given situation and why they are used. I also stress that you have to adapt the mechanics to your style.

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This is a great thread.

It highlights one of the most important tennants newer/younger/ less experienced umpires need to learn ---

---There is no X anybody can draw on a diagram to show you where to be for a play. You have to develop umpire instinct which may start as an X for you and as you develop your skills you can adjust accordingly.

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This is a great thread.

It highlights one of the most important tennants newer/younger/ less experienced umpires need to learn ---

---There is no X anybody can draw on a diagram to show you where to be for a play. You have to develop umpire instinct which may start as an X for you and as you develop your skills you can adjust accordingly.

This is precisely what was said to us repeatedly at the MLBUC afew weeks ago...

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Yes it might be easy to start at 3BLX... but if your at the point of the Plate, you can take 1-2 steps in either direction to get into position.

Matt you can't take all of your plays at 3BLX... if there is a collision play, you can miss a tag..

If there is a collision play that is legal, and F2 still has the ball, the runner is out tag or not on a standard looking block and collide play. I trust that Matt knows what he's talking about even though reading on here might be tough to tell exactly what he'd do in every-single-situation at the plate.

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Yes it might be easy to start at 3BLX... but if your at the point of the Plate, you can take 1-2 steps in either direction to get into position.

Matt you can't take all of your plays at 3BLX... if there is a collision play, you can miss a tag..

That is why you would adjust to the fair side of 1BLE. You now have the angle and a better view in the event of a dropped ball.

Earlier you stated you take time plays at POP. You should put the plate inbetween you and the tag play.

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Yes it might be easy to start at 3BLX... but if your at the point of the Plate, you can take 1-2 steps in either direction to get into position.

Matt you can't take all of your plays at 3BLX... if there is a collision play, you can miss a tag..

That is why you would adjust to the fair side of 1BLE. You now have the angle and a better view in the event of a dropped ball.

Earlier you stated you take time plays at POP. You should put the plate inbetween you and the tag play.

Your right, I should have added..If you read a time play, your starting position is at the POP..then adjust depending on where your runner is...if the runner is going back to 1st.. 1BLX.. 2nd POP... 3rd 3BLX...

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Yes it might be easy to start at 3BLX... but if your at the point of the Plate, you can take 1-2 steps in either direction to get into position.

Matt you can't take all of your plays at 3BLX... if there is a collision play, you can miss a tag..

If there is a collision play that is legal, and F2 still has the ball, the runner is out tag or not on a standard looking block and collide play. I trust that Matt knows what he's talking about even though reading on here might be tough to tell exactly what he'd do in every-single-situation at the plate.

Im still gonna start at the POP and adjust.. My assignors in College want it that way.. then that is how I will do it.

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Yes it might be easy to start at 3BLX... but if your at the point of the Plate, you can take 1-2 steps in either direction to get into position.

Matt you can't take all of your plays at 3BLX... if there is a collision play, you can miss a tag..

I was a bit unclear. I always start 3BLX and if I read a collision or similar, I move to the 1B side of home.

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Im still gonna start at the POP and adjust.. My assignors in College want it that way.. then that is how I will do it.

When in Rome...

That's why I switched to 3BLX--that's the new standard for us. It just so happens that I've found it to be better.

Sounds good.. where is Us at?.. :wave: and what level.... BTW I am just wondering..

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Im still gonna start at the POP and adjust.. My assignors in College want it that way.. then that is how I will do it.

When in Rome...

That's why I switched to 3BLX--that's the new standard for us. It just so happens that I've found it to be better.

Sounds good.. where is Us at?.. :wave: and what level.... BTW I am just wondering..

Upper Midwest, D3 and D2.

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I can understand the "concept" of starting out on 3BLEX and adjusting into fair territory. However, In the 2 man system PU is responsible for the touch of 3rd. PU should be swinging out in the direction of 3rd in foul territory to see the touch and returning to the plate for the play. My only concern would be not being able to get over to 3BLEX as your "starting point" to observe the play at the plate. Those few extra steps could cost you.

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I can understand the "concept" of starting out on 3BLEX and adjusting into fair territory. However, In the 2 man system PU is responsible for the touch of 3rd. PU should be swinging out in the direction of 3rd in foul territory to see the touch and returning to the plate for the play. My only concern would be not being able to get over to 3BLEX as your "starting point" to observe the play at the plate. Those few extra steps could cost you.

You should be watching the touch at 3rd from 3BLE not up the line. Watching from up the line in foul territory will not give you a good look at the inside corner of the bag.

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You should be watching the touch at 3rd from 3BLE not up the line. Watching from up the line in foul territory will not give you a good look at the inside corner of the bag.

This is why you swing out into foul territory, on the 3rd base side to see the touch and bounce back to the plate. This gives you a much better look at the inside corner of the bag, possible obstruction or interference by 3rd base coach. I would argue that looking directly up 3rd base line on 3BLEX could bring multiple things that could block your view. Things such as the catcher standing at the plate the 3rd baseman or cut-off man blocking the view of 3rd etc.

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Both mechanics have merit, both have advantages and disadvantages. I will stay with POP, whatever your group or conference tells you to do, do so, if not you won't get games. To me it is like saying heel/toe is the only stance to use on the plate and that GD or scissors are wrong. It is a personal preference, a matter of being confortable and a matter of being in the right spot at the right time. Matt's group says 3BLE to start and adjust to 1BL, so that is correct for him. Mid's is POP so that's right for him. I will teach POP but I won't ding for Matt's method. When I started it was 1BLE and adjust, we moved to POP, now some are doing 3BLE. Mechanics change, some we agree with, some not.

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Both mechanics have merit, both have advantages and disadvantages. I will stay with POP, whatever your group or conference tells you to do, do so, if not you won't get games. To me it is like saying heel/toe is the only stance to use on the plate and that GD or scissors are wrong. It is a personal preference, a matter of being confortable and a matter of being in the right spot at the right time. Matt's group says 3BLE to start and adjust to 1BL, so that is correct for him. Mid's is POP so that's right for him. I will teach POP but I won't ding for Matt's method. When I started it was 1BLE and adjust, we moved to POP, now some are doing 3BLE. Mechanics change, some we agree with, some not.

Makes you wonder if we'll just keep going counterclockwise throughout the future...

In all seriousness, our evals are the same--we aren't gigged on using POP, because it was the standard for so long. Being one of the younger guys, though, I figured it was better to embrace the new standard, even though I had been using POP for a decade or so, as I did not want to miss a call and have it blamed on me not following protocol. Like I said, it was a comfort to find that this is easier and more workable (for me, at least.)

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And to me, comfort is as much as anything. I'm a scissor guy and any clinic will tell you that it is very unstable, hard on your body and very tiring. However it works for me, and if you watch the NCAA WS you will see at least four guys working it. I don't teach it unless somebody expresses interest or they are already doing it and it needs work. We will stay with what we are good with and newer guys will learn and enbrace the new mechanic.

Keep up the good work.

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You're glancing for a touch anyway, it's very likely that we're only going to see a gross miss of 3b. As long as you have a clear look for a gross miss, then we'll be fine. The pending play at the dish is far more important than the touch. So we glance at the touch while getting in proper position for a swipe or block play at home.

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You should be watching the touch at 3rd from 3BLE not up the line. Watching from up the line in foul territory will not give you a good look at the inside corner of the bag.

This is why you swing out into foul territory, on the 3rd base side to see the touch and bounce back to the plate. This gives you a much better look at the inside corner of the bag, possible obstruction or interference by 3rd base coach. I would argue that looking directly up 3rd base line on 3BLEX could bring multiple things that could block your view. Things such as the catcher standing at the plate the 3rd baseman or cut-off man blocking the view of 3rd etc.

Swinging out into foul territory is not a good idea, and most coordinators/ evaluators do not want you going out into the grass a little to look for the touch at 3rd..if you stay at the POP and look toward 3rd, you will see if he touches. this way your not working to hard on getting back tot he POP then trying to read a Collision or swipe play./ Some Umpires like to work to hard.. there are many of times as an Umpire you do not have to move to be in the best spot. But Umpires have a tendency to think If I'm moving alot people/ coaches will think Im working hard.

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You should be watching the touch at 3rd from 3BLE not up the line. Watching from up the line in foul territory will not give you a good look at the inside corner of the bag.

This is why you swing out into foul territory, on the 3rd base side to see the touch and bounce back to the plate. This gives you a much better look at the inside corner of the bag, possible obstruction or interference by 3rd base coach. I would argue that looking directly up 3rd base line on 3BLEX could bring multiple things that could block your view. Things such as the catcher standing at the plate the 3rd baseman or cut-off man blocking the view of 3rd etc.

Swinging out into foul territory is not a good idea, and most coordinators/ evaluators do not want you going out into the grass a little to look for the touch at 3rd..if you stay at the POP and look toward 3rd, you will see if he touches. this way your not working to hard on getting back tot he POP then trying to read a Collision or swipe play./ Some Umpires like to work to hard.. there are many of times as an Umpire you do not have to move to be in the best spot. But Umpires have a tendency to think If I'm moving alot people/ coaches will think Im working hard.

I think many umpires hustle themselves out of position. Overhustling (hustling for the sake of hustling), can often be looked at as negative.

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Swinging out into foul territory is not a good idea, and most coordinators/ evaluators do not want you going out into the grass a little to look for the touch at 3rd..if you stay at the POP and look toward 3rd, you will see if he touches. this way your not working to hard on getting back tot he POP then trying to read a Collision or swipe play./ Some Umpires like to work to hard.. there are many of times as an Umpire you do not have to move to be in the best spot. But Umpires have a tendency to think If I'm moving alot people/ coaches will think Im working hard.

I'm not saying, move into the grass. The distance is a few steps to the left of the point of the plate (in the direction of 3rd). The PU shouldn't leave the dirt circle.

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I think many umpires hustle themselves out of position. Overhustling (hustling for the sake of hustling), can often be looked at as negative.

I do believe that an umpire should move with a purpose when on the field. I agree that "false hustle" or "over hustling" can get you out of position at times. Perfect example chasing double play balls. I've seen many a base umpire work the infield like a chicken with its head cut off causing them to be late getting set or out of position. However, shortcuting mechanics can get you in even more trouble. Sure 99% of the plays we see on the field my be routine but it's being able to handle those plays that make up the nut cutting 1% that separates the upper echelon umpires from the good umpires.

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Swinging out into foul territory is not a good idea, and most coordinators/ evaluators do not want you going out into the grass a little to look for the touch at 3rd..if you stay at the POP and look toward 3rd, you will see if he touches. this way your not working to hard on getting back tot he POP then trying to read a Collision or swipe play./ Some Umpires like to work to hard.. there are many of times as an Umpire you do not have to move to be in the best spot. But Umpires have a tendency to think If I'm moving alot people/ coaches will think Im working hard.

I'm not saying, move into the grass. The distance is a few steps to the left of the point of the plate (in the direction of 3rd). The PU shouldn't leave the dirt circle.

Agreed...

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