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Ok, I may have to retract my statements from earlier stating that Adult league was doing well this year. Yesterday was the final weekend before the "play ins" next weekend and the playoffs start after the holiday.

I had one of these 2 teams before. My first experience with the other. This was a double header I was on the bases first. Top of the first there was a inning ending double play with the play at first was apparently a banger, I'm 100% sure I got the call right. I didn't sell to hard just a bit more of a punch and a loud voice, because I didn't feel it was that close. About half a step. Well team A starts the whining and complaining.

Bottom of the first the inning ends with a nearly errant throw by F5 to F3. F3 leaps incredibly high to catch the ball, then applies the tag on the BR as he's falling. Here comes more whining.

Second game the 2nd or maybe 3rd pitch team B's catcher jerks an outside pitch and I balled it. He says "Blue it's going to be a long day if you don't give me that one."

I replied,"That was a ball and you know it."

He huffed an puffed on a few other pitches.

Batters were crying too. I was quickly getting tired of it. the "You called that a ball last time", "That was a mile outside", I had one guy look at a curve ball on the inner half (no black), He starts screaming about, "I'm the first umpire all year to call him out on strikes all year..." I wanted to say well now I feel special, but didn't.

We also had a situation where my partner had a real banger at first and called him out. The player/coach comes out and his argument was something like, 'come on the guy's 54 years old, you've got to give that to him.' I heard my partner say "We'll then I'll check everybody's ID before I make my call."

Late in the game I had another issue with that catcher. A low-inside pitch comes in I balled. This one was close, and I could have gotten a strike, but it was a ball. The catcher holds the ball. I had to tell him send it back. He starts b!tching again. I told him to 'knock it off now". As he's turning back to the pitcher he kicks dirt on the plate. I should have tossed him there, but didn't. The next pitch was a meatball down the middle for K3. I nearly balled it just to shove it up the catchers @ss but, couldn't do that either.

This was a game where I couldn't wait to get back home to my whining screaming kids, for a bit of relaxation.

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I haven't called any adult rec games and really don't plan on it. I have read too many negative posts about the games and players. From what I have read it seems that whining and smart a$$ comments back to the umpires are just part of the game. Most of the comments aren't worth the breath to respond. Just seems like a pain in the neck.

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Most of the comments aren't worth the breath to respond. Just seems like a pain in the neck.

That was my usual thought, "it's not worth it." I just think they were a bit more vocal and also got a bit more under my skin.

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Second game the 2nd or maybe 3rd pitch team B's catcher jerks an outside pitch and I balled it. He says "Blue it's going to be a long day if you don't give me that one."

When a catcher complains about not getting a strike on an obvious ball........I remind them they would not want that pitch called a strike when they were batting.........

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Adventures in "Men's Little League".

I actually got paid $100 for doing an MSBL game.

Once.

Just once.

Never wanted to have that sort of babysitting gig again.

Wasn't worth it.

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Ok, I may have to retract my statements from earlier stating that Adult league was doing well this year. Yesterday was the final weekend before the "play ins" next weekend and the playoffs start after the holiday.

UIC has mentioned this before, but we work in the same association, so I see some of these teams, too. I think this week was worse because it IS the end-of-season. A lot of games last weekend were on-the-fly matchups and/or makeup games, so guys wouldn't have to sit out a week before the playoffs start.

My partner didn't seem to have too much crap in our first game Sunday, but I had a couple guys crying a decent amount. One guy should have probably gone; he was a player's dad who played to give them a ninth player (he was actually the eighth player at the very start of the game). I pulled the cord on a breaking ball, and he did a little draw with the bat before he left. He also mumbled something about "you should stop watching TV" - I think he was referring to the punchout I made. But I decided to leave him in for at least another at-bat, I guess because I was laying bait for him later. (To his credit, he had little to say, and was looking to hit after that.)

The second guy was an excitable sort who pitched later. I got the first pitch for a strike his first two times, and on the 2nd AB, he said "I guess the first one's always a strike." No big deal, he wasn't making a huge deal. But he had looked at me after a called strike during one of those at-bats; not anything subtle, or even after a delay - as soon as he heard he say "Hike!" he whipped his head and stared.

So in his 3rd AB, I'd sort of tired of his crap. First one I called a strike, he did the whole parrot-on-a-perch whip of the head. So after F2 threw the ball back, I stepped around to clean the plate; as I walked around, I said "Keep looking back like that, and your zone's gonna get bigger. Step in and hit the ball." He swung at the next one - little outside, but I don't think he felt he had a choice. He probably didn't. He wasn't happy after his grounder got him out at first, and since he was now pitching, I knew it could get crappy, but I was ready. I didn't f--- him when he pitched, and I didn't get anything on him on his last AB that I wouldn't otherwise get, but I had decided to make sure he, and they, knew I was nearing my limit without dumping right away.

Should I have said that?

Just thought I'd toss my story out there, and let UIC know it seemed to be an "NABA thing" this weekend.

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You'd think that with only 9 players that they'd realize they need to be choir boys.

Some guys really don't get it.

I'd have dumped the "Dad" for that sort of BS, and let them whine all the way to the parking lot.

Why put up with it?

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UIC and Hokie:

Where do you call most of your games? I'm not that far from you(hokie shows Hampton Roads). I work a lot of adult ball and have little trouble. I did have one game that gave me a problem.

I had a stud strike out and he threw his bat against the fence about four feet high. Any level lower and he would have gone, no question. I called him to tell him to get it under control. On my third call to him he waved back at me without looking. I dumped him. I told his manager I felt it was a FU motion.

The next inning his batter hits one down the line. F7 catches it going away from me. I had him bobble it and recatching it at waist level. The BR ends up at second, I called the out. The coach looses it saying it hit the fence. I told him I had the bobble but not off the fence so it's a catch. I told him if he didn't want to go the way of his player then we were done and I returned to the plate. I go to restart and the runner at seond is still there. I told him he was out, let's go. He starts the childish slow walk across the infield. As he gets to the mound, on his way to the first base dugout, he throws his helmet toward the third base dugout. I dumped him immediately. Two players had to come get him off the field. The other issue was we then got lightning. I told the managers that we would use the 30/30 rule and if needed we would suspend. I told them if we did suspend we would stop for 30 minutes. He once again got angry. He said we need to get out of the HS mentality, they were grown men and should follow MLB procedures. I told him I wasn't sure but was fairly certain that was the MLB policy but I had the MLBUM at home and I would know for the next night. I went home and sure enough it says if you suspend for weather then it's a 30 minute wait.

The really funny thing was he didn't like a crew that he had in the post season and he asked why I wasn't on his game.

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We are both with the Eastern Officials Association www.evoa.com It serves All High schools in Norfolk, Va Beach, Portsmouth, Chesapeake, Suffolk. Plus the vast majority of rec ball (both youth & adult). Fall is a little smaller since one of the districts goes with another officiating org in the fall b/c we won't use 1 umpire like they want.

The Playoffs start next weekend and I'm scheduled a game so well see how that goes. I'll post in my game journal blog as usual.

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There's a guy that comes up to DE to work tournament ball that is from Norfolk. I worked three games with him earlier this summer. I would be interested in coming down next summer. I like working with guys I meet on the internet. I'm like you, I work whatever level comes up.

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After doing it for a couple of seasons previously, I told a couple of cohorts one night who asked me why I didn't work the area adult baseball league anymore:

"There's no such thing as "adult" baseball"...(MLB excluded for the most part):cheers:

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I did one MSBL doubleheader this year.... after swearing that I wouldnt...I've done a few games in the past and it was awful....not only the whining but the level of play of the teams I had was pretty bad....

I took this DH assignment because I got the chance to work with a good friend of mine and an excellent umpire...figured how bad could it be.....my partner and I are long time established umpires with resumes that far exceeded this level of play...plus the DH paid well and it was a beautiful day...

It wasnt horrible........but it wasnt a walk in the park either... the whining was worse in the first game than in the second....they were getting tired and guess they figured it wasnt doing any good anyway....

I wouldnt say I am looking to add many MSBL games to my summer schedule next year...

Edited by Stan W.

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You stated in your post

"Second game the 2nd or maybe 3rd pitch team B's catcher jerks an outside pitch and I balled it. He says "Blue it's going to be a long day if you don't give me that one."

My reply would have been .... if you thought it was a strike then why did you jerk it back in. You must have thought it was a ball also, or you would have frame that pitch for me.

Just my 2 cents

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I turned in my catchers gear about 8 yrs. ago, took some time off and picked up the umpiring gear. I now think about whether I was a "whiner" as a player... I imagine I was to a small extent. Along with youth and HS games I work a Men's league (contracted with a single team for the season) and grew up knowing or associated with 34 of the team that hires me. Guys that I never would have expected to "whine" are some of the worst, like wise players that I would expect to be the biggest problems (visiting teams) aren't .

A question I would put out there for discussion (maybe a thread topic?) is "When did Influencing turn into Whining?" I swear, when I played as a catcher I competed every game against the opposing catcher to get "best buddy" points with the PU :banghead:. I can appreciate a playermanager who tries to "sell it" on close plays. Or classic player moves like, catcher coming out of the shoot on a boarder line 3-2 pitch, batter looking, flip the ball to the PU on his way to the dugout even before the call is made (I loved using this one). Sometimes it works, sometimes it blows up in your face but at least it is being pro-active. Players that try to influence the call through actions shows me "savvy" for the game, players that whine = lack of savvy.

It's not just at the adult level either, I rung up a HS player on a third strike 2 feet off the plate head height last week (I swear it was a pitch-out) when he made it a point to turn around and grown about the prior 2 strikes (each time) that where called on him. This was a very good team... and they knew it! So I am wondering to myself were do these kids (14-17yrs) get off trying to show me up? Then I heard it, dad was to my right in the stands actingsounding more childish then his 15 yr. old son who just got rung up very obvious statement call (dad plays for a neighboring town in the Men's league I work). The kidteam got it, never heard a thing for the rest of the game, but guess who never shut up about it... yep dad.

" Actions that try to influence are pro-active, whinning is a reaction born out of frustration" IMHO, Not trying to take credit for this quote I am sure I heard this somewhere.

In the end, I won't avoid or turn down a Men's League game to work but I would never in my right mind do it for FREE!

Edited by kwiggie

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You know, UIC, I had an "over 30 game" yesterday scheduled for 9am. Had to leave the house at 7:30am. It had rained the night before so I was reasonably certain that it should've been canceled. Well, don't you know, we get to the field and NO ONE and I mean NO ONE is there.

I was soooooo happy to take their half-fee and go to my next game at 4pm. BTW, besides being whinny little babies (not all) they play 9 innings. By the 5th all they do is b!tch about their "injuries".

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After doing it for a couple of seasons previously, I told a couple of cohorts one night who asked me why I didn't work the area adult baseball league anymore:

"There's no such thing as "adult" baseball"...(MLB excluded for the most part):wave:

AMEN. :banghead:

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A question I would put out there for discussion (maybe a thread topic?) is "When did Influencing turn into Whining?" I swear, when I played as a catcher I competed every game against the opposing catcher to get "best buddy" points with the PU :agasp_:. I can appreciate a playermanager who tries to "sell it" on close plays. Or classic player moves like, catcher coming out of the shoot on a boarder line 3-2 pitch, batter looking, flip the ball to the PU on his way to the dugout even before the call is made (I loved using this one). Sometimes it works, sometimes it blows up in your face but at least it is being pro-active. Players that try to influence the call through actions shows me "savvy" for the game, players that whine = lack of savvy.

You like this kind of style and that is OK. It is your game when you are behind the plate so do things your way. Me, I never liked it when a batter tossed his bat when he thinks it is ball 4 or a catcher taking off to the dugout or throwing the ball around if he thought it was strike 3. Or, that annoying 1B coach who signals Safe(9 times out of 10, I will call it an Out. And if I don't call him Out, it is b/c I missed him calling Safe before I made my call). In general, I go the opposite of who just decided to call my game for me unless it is so obvious to everyone what the call should be. Again, when I am back there, it is MY game not theirs to call. They decide it with their actions. I decide it with MY calls. They play, I call. Not the other way around so they shouldn't be trying it.

It's not just at the adult level either, I rung up a HS player on a third strike 2 feet off the plate head height last week (I swear it was a pitch-out) when he made it a point to turn around and grown about the prior 2 strikes (each time) that where called on him. This was a very good team... and they knew it! So I am wondering to myself were do these kids (14-17yrs) get off trying to show me up? Then I heard it, dad was to my right in the stands actingsounding more childish then his 15 yr. old son who just got rung up very obvious statement call (dad plays for a neighboring town in the Men's league I work). The kidteam got it, never heard a thing for the rest of the game, but guess who never shut up about it... yep dad.

Take this as just a suggestion and nothing more. Again, it is your game to call whether on the bases or behind the plate.

I am not condoning nor condemning your FYC. But, I think if a player is getting to you enough where you are considering a FYC then you should be EJing him. Here is my reason. What if he has just done something to show you up and you allow him to with the premise of "the next pitch is a strike no matter where it is". Now, he has just shown everyone he can talk or do what he wants and you will allow it. Then, instead of getting your FYC, he hits a HR. Again, he has just shown he can do what he wants.

Are you going to hold it against him for his next at bat? Or, since you didn't get it, will you EJ him after it is done? If you do either one of these, now, you are the one who looks bad. Not him. I am just suggesting an alternative. If you want to keep doing it, well, then that is up to you. I use to do it too. But, I will now just EJ them now that I am older and have been doing this for a while and thought about it. I am only 31 and have been doing this for 18 years this year. So, I have some experience with making those calls but have since moved on. I called a 50 ft fastball that went to the backstop for "Strike 2" in a men's game b/c he turned around to me on a pitch right on the outside corner and said "That's terrible!" So, I have experience doing it but I would just EJ him if it happens again b/c I have moved on from the FYC and this was about 8 or 9 years ago. So, I had/have as much/more attitude than the players on the field but I would rather make sure my message gets across instead of missing the opportunity. That is all I am saying about it. Don't take it as criticism in any way.

And, as for adult league whiners, I have thought of them as whiners ever since my first season which was 11 years ago. It has been about 6 or 7 years since we did those games and none of us miss them. We like having the Sundays off or if we do call on a Sunday, it is for much better behaved 14 year olds. Go figure. Teenagers act better than the adults. Hmmmmmmmmmm....:wow:

Edited by Mr Umpire

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You like this kind of style and that is OK. It is your game when you are behind the plate so do things your way. Me, I never liked it when a batter tossed his bat when he thinks it is ball 4 or a catcher taking off to the dugout or throwing the ball around if he thought it was strike 3. Or, that annoying 1B coach who signals Safe(9 times out of 10, I will call it an Out. And if I don't call him Out, it is b/c I missed him calling Safe before I made my call). In general, I go the opposite of who just decided to call my game for me unless it is so obvious to everyone what the call should be. Again, when I am back there, it is MY game not theirs to call. They decide it with their actions. I decide it with MY calls. They play, I call. Not the other way around so they shouldn't be trying it.

Take this as just a suggestion and nothing more. Again, it is your game to call whether on the bases or behind the plate.

I am not condoning nor condemning your FYC. But, I think if a player is getting to you enough where you are considering a FYC then you should be EJing him. Here is my reason. What if he has just done something to show you up and you allow him to with the premise of "the next pitch is a strike no matter where it is". Now, he has just shown everyone he can talk or do what he wants and you will allow it. Then, instead of getting your FYC, he hits a HR. Again, he has just shown he can do what he wants.

Are you going to hold it against him for his next at bat? Or, since you didn't get it, will you EJ him after it is done? If you do either one of these, now, you are the one who looks bad. Not him. I am just suggesting an alternative. If you want to keep doing it, well, then that is up to you. I use to do it too. But, I will now just EJ them now that I am older and have been doing this for a while and thought about it. I am only 31 and have been doing this for 18 years this year. So, I have some experience with making those calls but have since moved on. I called a 50 ft fastball that went to the backstop for "Strike 2" in a men's game b/c he turned around to me on a pitch right on the outside corner and said "That's terrible!" So, I have experience doing it but I would just EJ him if it happens again b/c I have moved on from the FYC and this was about 8 or 9 years ago. So, I had/have as much/more attitude than the players on the field but I would rather make sure my message gets across instead of missing the opportunity. That is all I am saying about it. Don't take it as criticism in any way.

And, as for adult league whiners, I have thought of them as whiners ever since my first season which was 11 years ago. It has been about 6 or 7 years since we did those games and none of us miss them. We like having the Sundays off or if we do call on a Sunday, it is for much better behaved 14 year olds. Go figure. Teenagers act better than the adults. Hmmmmmmmmmm....:wow:

Mr Umpire,

1. So, if I am reading you correctly, you employ FYCs at 1B when the 1B coach signals/calls his runner Safe. I find that mildly annoying as well, but I wouldn't let it influence my call either way.

2. Although he certainly wasn't very clear about it, I believe in kwiggie's OP that the batter SWUNG at the "head high, 2 feet outside" pitch for strike three.

JM

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Mr Umpire,

1. So, if I am reading you correctly, you employ FYCs at 1B when the 1B coach signals/calls his runner Safe. I find that mildly annoying as well, but I wouldn't let it influence my call either way.

2. Although he certainly wasn't very clear about it, I believe in kwiggie's OP that the batter SWUNG at the "head high, 2 feet outside" pitch for strike three.

JM

I'm not employing a FYC at 1B. I am not allowing them to influence nor have the appearance of them influencing my call. If they think on a close one, he was safe, then they are trying to influence a call. And, letting them do that and the call on one which is very close going their way, tells the entire park that the call can be influenced.

I am not saying to do it on one which is very obvious to be safe. Not at all. But, on one which can go for or against, this is a factor I take into consideration before deciding. Simply to let them know, they are not calling my game for me.

It is not a FYC. It is a "Do your job and I will do mine". Many do it to some degree whether on purpose or not. It is being done at some level whether the call goes for them or against them. It is being influenced. I would rather they understand they are not going to influence me to call it their way. They do their part and play/coach the game. I will do mine and call it.

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I tell coaches, the first time, that I will make the calls and I don't need their help.

Same here.

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Mr Umpire,

1. So, if I am reading you correctly, you employ FYCs at 1B when the 1B coach signals/calls his runner Safe. I find that mildly annoying as well, but I wouldn't let it influence my call either way.

2. Although he certainly wasn't very clear about it, I believe in kwiggie's OP that the batter SWUNG at the "head high, 2 feet outside" pitch for strike three.

JM

1. The swinging strike did not happen, I rung this player up looking at what could have been mistaken for a pitch out (it was that up and off the plate). Just to clarify, this was about the third batter over the course of 2 innings that acted this way at the plate. It was getting progressivly worse leading up to this the 3rd batter. I decided (right or wrong) to give the coach a chance to recognize what was happening and take control of his team's declining attitude. He recognized but was unable to affectively do anything about it. That is when I made up my mind to "example" this player. After this happend (the called strike out) I walked 5' up the 3B line and eyed the coach to see what his reaction would be. The batter shuffling back to his bench mouth still running and the dugout in a tithe the coach looked to me, nodded, and promptly yelled across the diamond for his boys to "SHUT UP!" problem solved. Good tactic, or did I just get lucky things played out the way they did? *opinions please*

2. Mr. Ump, I didn't give the "In your head" scenario any thought until you mentioned it, good point. In my mind after I made my call, the coach took action, and those playersteam settled down, all is good done deal... let's play ball. Some of the offending players did come back up to the plate later on hacking at some really bad pitches however, it was like their coach told them "you guys dinked yourselves now, better be swinging at anything not over your heads or in the dirt". It now becomes their issue they have to work through not mine...

3. As I metioned in the OP this was a HS game, and I will give every oppurtunitiy for a playercoach to collectcorrect themselves so "we" don't have to go down the ejection road.

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kwiggie,

1. The swinging strike did not happen, I rung this player up looking at what could have been mistaken for a pitch out (it was that up and off the plate). ...

OH MY GOD.

Since you asked, my opinion is that this is horse$hit umpiring and definitely has no place in a HS game.

Did you consider warning them for arguing balls and strikes and ejecting anyone who persisted? You know, like an umpire would.

JM

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kwiggie,

OH MY GOD.

Since you asked, my opinion is that this is horse$hit umpiring and definitely has no place in a HS game.

Did you consider warning them for arguing balls and strikes and ejecting anyone who persisted? You know, like an umpire would.

JM

Whoa! OK. I guess we know where JM stands along with many others on this issue.

Kwiggie,

As I stated, it is up to you on how you handle an issue. I would just reconsider and go with the EJ. It can prove to be more effective than you know. Especially in HS, the player doesn't get to play in the next game. And, if he means something to the team and could have helped in a PH situation, then his coach will let him know it. I am just suggesting it but it is YOUR game. Do what you want. But, evaluators look at this kind of stuff and will prevent you from doing more games at higher levels. Just a warning b/c I have seen others lose an opportunity and don't know why.

So, I suggest getting more familiar with EJtions rather than the FYC. JMO but think about it if you wish to go higher in levels. Don't let them mess with you and don't wait for the coach to do his job. Just EJ them and then the coach will start dealing with his players when he has none left to field a team for a game.

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