should I have?

[mazzamouth]

So im working the Dish in a DII game yesterday... 2nd inning 2-2 count there was a pitch that was about 4 inches inside but the catcher was setup on the outside and came back across his body to catch it.. I balled it, and the catcher was a little pissed.. a few pitches later the coach asked about it and F2 told him it was a strike..

well HC comes out for a visit, but I knew he wanted to "talk " so I waited then send him off, he was starring at me.. but I gave him nothing..LOL

a few pitches later inning over.. here is where it gets fun..LOL

HC come out to me and says

HC" what does a guy have to do"

Me" Gary ( HC 1st name) what are you talking about?"

HC " what does a guy have to do to get a strike"

Me " Gary i know we are not talking balls and strikes right? ( in a very low voice)"

HC " that pitch was right down the middle"

ME " your talking about a pitch 3 batters ago"

HC "yes, i could have yelled at you from the dugout, but came out to talk to you"

ME "ok since you came out, I will tell you, that pitch was 4 inches inside"

HC no way"

ME " were done talking about this, lets go"

HC " no way, that was a strike"

ME " I told you were done, now go before I give you a warning"

he left and all of this was very quiet.. i didnt feel there was nothing to EJ or even give a official warning ( although he got closes)

I didn't hear a word from him the rest of the game...

[yawetag]

he left and all of this was very quiet.. i didnt feel there was nothing to EJ or even give a official warning ( although he got closes)

I didn't hear a word from him the rest of the game...

It was personal, (seemingly) quiet, and non-confrontational. I'd have let it go.

Last year, after a long inning, the coach for the defense was on his way to the 3B box. He stopped to talk to me, and asked me to remove the lineup card. As I did so, he said (quietly) "We've got to be more consistent with our zone. Now, I'm bringing #15 in for #4." I replied, "Okay, coach. #15 for #4. While I've got the scorecard out, I'm going to write 'Warned for arguing balls and strikes'. Any questions?"

It was all done personally, and no one knew what happened. He got his point across, and I retorted firmly enough to keep him quiet the rest of the game. Was it worthy of an ejection? Yes. However, it would have looked bad to eject a coach when no one but us knew what was being talked about.

In short, you handled it the way I would have.

[mstaylor]

I think it was a good pass. If he wanted to stick around and carrying it further then it may ended differently. I have been known to tell a coach in this situation that I like strikes as much as he does but that wasn't one, let's play baseball.

[catoblue]

I personally like Mike's one-liner: "I like strikes as much as you, and that wasn't one", followed by something like "end of discussion, let's play ball"

[BrianC14]

No hook at this point, but I would have given a warning since he kept pressing it.

[JaxRolo]

Very good comments from everyone on this so far. I agree no EJ.

Sometimes a coach just needs to vent whether is loudly or quietly. They just need to know when to stop.

[jjb]

I've often wondered about the concept of coaches "just standing up for my players". Anybody know what that means? No umpire is ever going to change a call, and no good umpire will ever be intimidated enough to "make the next one go his way". So, why bother? You want to vent, go talk the the water cooler.....

[Paperipper17]

I've often wondered about the concept of coaches "just standing up for my players". Anybody know what that means? No umpire is ever going to change a call, and no good umpire will ever be intimidated enough to "make the next one go his way". So, why bother? You want to vent, go talk the the water cooler.....

I'm with you on that. I think it's more for the player's sake. The coach feels like he has to show the player he "has his back." IMHO, if you need to see your coach argue with an umpire to prove that, you're playing for the wrong coach.

[daled]

How would you guys handle this?

Earlier this week I had a game that was a little "chipy" between the two teams. Nothing that we all have not seen or been a part of before. Just two good teams in a battle.

A few times during the game the home team coach asked the catcher "where was that pitch", on one that I called a ball, and to his credit the catcher replied "out of the strike zone".

Here is the exact situation:

Late in the game home team down 2 runs. They are playing defense. Catcher sets up for inside pitch and the pitch comes in low and about 4-5 inches inside. Catcher does not move mitt and holds it there for a couple of seconds after I have called ball. Now the fun begins!!

Pitching coach yells blue where was that pitch? I ignore him, he continues where was that pitch? Then very loudly says Where Was That Pitch I need to let my pitcher know how to adjust!!!

I called time stepped out from behind the plate. I called the HC over and instructed him that his assistant coach would spend the remainder of the game in the dug-out and I did not want to hear another word. As I walk away I hear the assistant coach say to the HC "he can't make me be quite, that was a horrible call"! I turn around and give him the hook.

What would you have done?

[BrianC14]

How would you guys handle this?

Earlier this week I had a game that was a little "chipy" between the two teams. Nothing that we all have not seen or been a part of before. Just two good teams in a battle.

A few times during the game the home team coach asked the catcher "where was that pitch", on one that I called a ball, and to his credit the catcher replied "out of the strike zone".

Here is the exact situation:

Late in the game home team down 2 runs. They are playing defense. Catcher sets up for inside pitch and the pitch comes in low and about 4-5 inches inside. Catcher does not move mitt and holds it there for a couple of seconds after I have called ball. Now the fun begins!!

Pitching coach yells blue where was that pitch? I ignore him, he continues where was that pitch? Then very loudly says Where Was That Pitch I need to let my pitcher know how to adjust!!!

I called time stepped out from behind the plate. I called the HC over and instructed him that his assistant coach would spend the remainder of the game in the dug-out and I did not want to hear another word. As I walk away I hear the assistant coach say to the HC "he can't make me be quite, that was a horrible call"! I turn around and give him the hook.

What would you have done?

I would have asked my partner for help. Yes, that's right. I'd have asked my partner for help.

On selecting where we get a beer after the game.

PS: Assistant coaches do not exist for me. I talk to the top dog. If he can't shut the AC up, then the AC is leaving. I think you handled it fine. I'm betting you didn't have anymore issues that game, am I right? :2cents:

Edited March 26, 2010 by BrianC14
Added postscript

[kcfan102]

Don't waste your time with being politically correct once this guy has depleted his 9 lives. Remember, you're the bad ass mo-fo out there.

This was brought up on another thread, but I was too late in replying....

I'm seriously considering buying one of these.

[mstaylor]

I agree to tell the catcher to throw it back and don't hold pitches anymore. If the pitching coach wants to yak, tell to knock it off. DO NOT ignore him because that will just escalate for no reason. If he wants to keep yakking I would just tell the manager to take care of shutting him down. If that is unsuccessful, get rid of the coach. I am not going the restriction route here, I am going to verbally warn, tell the manger to handle and then dump.

There may be situations to restrict but I haven't found one yet. To be honest it doesn't occur to me. I'm either keeping him and shutting it down or he is leaving, his choice. Now I have an advantage, the managers in my area know this and act accordingly.

To be honest I haven't dumped a coach in four years. The last one charged me from the dugout, he never made the plate.

[blp79]

Had this happen yesterday in a H.S. game,bottom of the third 1 out runner on second the 6 hole at bat.This kid has already went down on strikes looking once,He takes 2 right down the pipe,count then goes full,next pitch knee high right down the pipe I ring him up and as he's leaving the box I get what are you blue Fu*&^%@ blind I need a golf club to hit that.:shrug:well thanks for playing you can watch the rest of the game from the bus.:wave:On my way back to the plate a fan starts in (hitters dad),you cant do that blue he wasn't even talking to you,are you stupid.I politely tell him that is enough,he replies you cant tell me what to do and then ask him if he would like to join his son,he replies you can't make me leave: thanks for coming.This guy was so out of control the schools A.D. had to remove him.After that we never had a problem the rest of the day,I think I got my point across.So when dealing with fans or parents how do you handle this situation or other involving fans.

[mstaylor]

IGNORE them. We have no authority over them. If you have a problem that you think needs handling contact the AD or school admin at the game and let them handle it. At our games there is always either the AD or administrator plus a police officer. Any problems go to them. If you think it is out of control to the point of being dangerous then suspend play until it is fixed or if unfixable, leave.

[BrianC14]

Had this happen yesterday in a H.S. game,bottom of the third 1 out runner on second the 6 hole at bat.This kid has already went down on strikes looking once,He takes 2 right down the pipe,count then goes full,next pitch knee high right down the pipe I ring him up and as he's leaving the box I get what are you blue Fu*&^%@ blind I need a golf club to hit that.:shrug:well thanks for playing you can watch the rest of the game from the bus.:wave:On my way back to the plate a fan starts in (hitters dad),you cant do that blue he wasn't even talking to you,are you stupid.I politely tell him that is enough,he replies you cant tell me what to do and then ask him if he would like to join his son,he replies you can't make me leave: thanks for coming.

As stupid as he may have seemed, HE'S RIGHT - you CAN'T tell him what to do, and you can't make him leave.

This guy was so out of control the schools A.D. had to remove him.After that we never had a problem the rest of the day,I think I got my point across.So when dealing with fans or parents how do you handle this situation or other involving fans.

You DON'T. Your authority ends at the fence. Read what MSTaylor is saying.

Don't EVER engage fans. It's not your job, and it's no-win everytime.

In this case, you were lucky that other fans remained out of it.

[blp79]

As stupid as he may have seemed, HE'S RIGHT - you CAN'T tell him what to do, and you can't make him leave.

You DON'T. Your authority ends at the fence. Read what MSTaylor is saying.

Don't EVER engage fans. It's not your job, and it's no-win everytime.

In this case, you were lucky that other fans remained out of it.

No I do not have authority over him but I can have the home teams management remove him, and that is what i did as far as engaging him,yes I fell for his bait and should have just let him run his mouth.But I'm sure It's nothing that hasn't happend before

[mstaylor]

You are absolutely right but you asked how to handle it in the future. Don't engage them directly, nothing good becomes of it, let the managment know and let them handle it. Always try to know who and where the admin guy is. If you can't find them then let the home manager find him. I try to just ignore them unless they get out of hand or vulgar, then it's time for the AD to step in.

I was doing a team once, my alma mater, and they had one kid tthat came to every game and yakked very loudly and didn't have a clue. He said something one night and the home manager came up the line from the coach's box and told him he was gone and was never to come back. No umpire had ever said a word but evidently the coach was tired of it.

[yawetag]

No I do not have authority over him but I can have the home teams management remove him, and that is what i did as far as engaging him,yes I fell for his bait and should have just let him run his mouth.But I'm sure It's nothing that hasn't happend before

On my way back to the plate a fan starts in (hitters dad),you cant do that blue he wasn't even talking to you,are you stupid.I politely tell him that is enough,he replies you cant tell me what to do and then ask him if he would like to join his son,he replies you can't make me leave: thanks for coming.This guy was so out of control the schools A.D. had to remove him.

Your OP doesn't suggest you had the A.D. remove him. It suggests you spoke to him, gave him an ultimatum ("and then ask him if he would like to join his son"), then ejected him.

[daled]

Brian your correct no more issues that game.

Ump-24

I agree. No matter how much game experience we have there is always one game that we let things drag on a little too long.

[blp79]

Your OP doesn't suggest you had the A.D. remove him. It suggests you spoke to him, gave him an ultimatum ("and then ask him if he would like to join his son"), then ejected him.

yes I did make the mistake of speaking to him,and asked him if he would like to join his son:(.Before I asked the A.D. to remove him,just have to learn from that and move on.:banghead:I re read my op i put that the schools A.D. removed him I left out that it was at my request this guy was vulgar towards me and my partner all day this was game 2 of 3,and I let him get the better of me.lesson learned

Edited March 29, 2010 by blp79

[mstaylor]

That the important thing is to learn from mistakes and don't make it again. Anybody that says they haven't made a mistake umpiring has only worked about an inning. Good job.

[ump81]

daled, good ejection but I would have gotten him earlier, NFHS came out with a specific directive against assistant coach unsportsmanlike conduct. Give them no quarter, the minute he said something audible to me and to anyone else on balls and strikes he's gone. You have the support of the rule book in two means, balls and strikes can not be argued and assistant coaches are to coach and be seen not heard. On the whole I think the trend of the post has been "it's good to keep them in the game, he really didnt cross the line, only he and I heard the comments" My take BULL SH*T ! If they argue balls and strikes in any way its an easy justified ejection. The guy umpiring 7 years with zero ejections, it is not believeable to me he has never had a coach or player say or do anything that was worthy of an ejection in 7 years of mens league! We sometimes get 7 a week in the prima donna men's "adult" baseball. I think we as arbiters of the game and tasked with maintaining sortsmanship have to step up and handle our business. I've been in this 15 years and it seems I have more ejections each year, it's not that I am some red-ass (have 3 this year so far). I believe we as umpires have let too much go over time and coaches think they can intimidate us and use abusive language because some of us have let them in the past. When we get a national AAU or college tournament we as an association know there will be ejections because teams from other parts of the country have been allowed to engage in unsportsmanlike behavior and have verbally abused umpires all season at home. (seems like teams from NY, NJ, Penn and Mass are always the first to get ejections). I may seem like some raving lunatic blue but I wanted to offer an alternative view to all the "he was just frustrated or rallying his team" BS arguments for not stepping up when we have an oportunity to do so. I will give only the head coach a bit of lee-way, no player or assistant deserves this. In closing, yes use discretion and game management but when it becomes clear the only intent is to abuse, intimidate or belittle us as umpires, eject every time!

[Umpire in Chief]

(seems like teams from NY, NJ, Penn and Mass are always the first to get ejections).

Those GDYankeeBast@rds always heading south causing trouble...

On a somewhat related note I was talking with an umpire I know who says ejections are up in his area too. He suggested that because of the problems in the MLB guys had in the fall we as umpires at the amateur level are seen as completely incompetent and an easy target for being wrong. This makes the players and coaches be more aggressive towards us because our reputation as umpires has been hurt even worse than we normally have.

I thought this was an interesting theory and may have some validity.

[mstaylor]

Ump81:

While I'm not afraid to toss, don't get too quick with assts. While Fed has said that coaches can't argue with us it doesn't mean they can't coach. I need to go back and read the post you are referencing but chirping from a coach isn't an auto ejection. Am I going to shut him down, absolutely, but I'm not necessarily dumping him straight away.

If he comes up the line yakking he is at least getting restricted, if he charges up the line then bye bye.

As I've said in the past, restricting isn't in my normal arsenal, I don't usually think of it. However, this might be a place for it. I'll let you know the next tiime I restrict one.

All that said, if a coach asks a question then in all likelihood I'm answering him. If he is yakking then he gets shut down.

[yawetag]

That the important thing is to learn from mistakes and don't make it again. Anybody that says they haven't made a mistake umpiring has only worked about an inning. Good job.

Exactly. I also have no problem with getting a fan removed from the premises, especially when they're acting as such to the umpires.