need help with line up cards

[1dumbquestion]

Hey all. In my short umpire career I have managed to do only small diamond fed based, and regular season LL games, both with continuous batting order so have not had to use line up cards, subs and such. well, I'll be calling some A/S LL games in the district tourny over the next couple weeks. I have a blank card and I know what it will look like when I get it. my question is how do you guys mark and keep track of subs and starters re-entering, conferences? that kind of thing. thanks, 1

[LMSANS]

Hey all. In my short umpire career I have managed to do only small diamond fed based, and regular season LL games, both with continuous batting order so have not had to use line up cards, subs and such. well, I'll be calling some A/S LL games in the district tourny over the next couple weeks. I have a blank card and I know what it will look like when I get it. my question is how do you guys mark and keep track of subs and starters re-entering, conferences? that kind of thing. thanks, 1

When a sub is entered, I put 1 diagonal line through the starter. When the starter re-enters, I put an X (2 diagonal lines) through the sub. When a 2nd sub is entered, I put a second diagonal line through the starter (an X) eliminating him from eligibility.

Anybody with an X is ineleigible to re-enter, a single diagonal line means a starter that is eligible to re-enter.

I am told that the diagonal lines do not hurt much.:shrug:

[dawg-man]

The substitution rules for LL all stars are different so make sure you read those rules. Just make sure you record each and every sub. The visits to the mound and the special pinch runners I record those on the back. Good luck and let us know how it goes for you. Most of us started our umpiring at the level you are. Enjoy

[TomEllis]

When a sub is entered, I put 1 diagonal line through the starter. When the starter re-enters, I put an X (2 diagonal lines) through the sub. When a 2nd sub is entered, I put a second diagonal line through the starter (an X) eliminating him from eligibility.

Anybody with an X is ineleigible to re-enter, a single diagonal line means a starter that is eligible to re-enter.

I am told that the diagonal lines do not hurt much.

Larry,

The above about the starter and subs with an X through their position does not work in AS/LL tournaments. Once the starter and their sub have met MPR, they can be switched in and out throughout the rest of the game. If a second sub is used, then the first sub is the one that is ineleigible for that game. Remember, the starter and any subs are LOCKED into the batting order that the starter started in, subs cannot sub for any other starter.

As per the OP, I put a small x next to the pitcher for visits, Circle the jersey number of the player that has had a SPR, change the fielding number for the players (mainly the pitcher and catcher).

I hope others chime in as to their tracking.

Thanks,

Tom

[LMSANS]

Larry,

The above about the starter and subs with an X through their position does not work in AS/LL tournaments. Once the starter and their sub have met MPR, they can be switched in and out throughout the rest of the game. If a second sub is used, then the first sub is the one that is ineleigible for that game. Remember, the starter and any subs are LOCKED into the batting order that the starter started in, subs cannot sub for any other starter.

As per the OP, I put a small x next to the pitcher for visits, Circle the jersey number of the player that has had a SPR, change the fielding number for the players (mainly the pitcher and catcher).

I hope others chime in as to their tracking.

Thanks,

Tom

:smachhead:I sit corrected. I use my method for Fed games. All of the other leagues I work for don't require the umpire to track subs. ;)

[1dumbquestion]

ok, I think I'm getting it. although I did like the fed way lets see if I have this... able starts as f6 at the 3rd inning he is replaced by baker, after the 5th able and baker can switch back and forth as much as they want... but if in the 5th charley replaces baker than able can re-enter but baker is done for the game? did that make any sense? thanks, 1, I think I've got the concept just not sure how I'll keep track of it on the card.

[mstaylor]

I haven't heard the interp that once a second sub comes in the first is done for the day. I was under the imprression that they all could come in and out. 1dumbquestion, remember the MPR for allstars is one AB/Three defensive outs.

[1dumbquestion]

good catch MS, I had reg season in my head with 1ab and 6 outs. oh, and I do have sheet called "2009 LL tourney rule differences" is that the one you were asking about? thanks for the help, 1

Edited June 26, 2009 by 1dumbquestion

[mstaylor]

Probably, I have one done by an excellent umpire in Florida. WR has one on their site. I have a baseball version and I can download the softball version.

What I was talking about, for everyone else, was a one sheet index of the LL tournament rules covering 9/10s to 17/18s.

[someoneinca]

ok, I think I'm getting it. although I did like the fed way lets see if I have this... able starts as f6 at the 3rd inning he is replaced by baker, after the 5th able and baker can switch back and forth as much as they want... but if in the 5th charley replaces baker than able can re-enter but baker is done for the game? did that make any sense? thanks, 1, I think I've got the concept just not sure how I'll keep track of it on the card.

In LL tournament play, Able and Baker would be able to switch back and forth after Baker bats once and plays three consecutive defensive outs.

If Charlie replaces Baker, all three can switch once Charlie has batted once and played three consecutive defensive outs. Thus, a manager could have a hitter, a fielder, and a runner all in the same spot and swap them out.

[TomEllis]

In LL tournament play, Able and Baker would be able to switch back and forth after Baker bats once and plays three consecutive defensive outs.

If Charlie replaces Baker, all three can switch once Charlie has batted once and played three consecutive defensive outs. Thus, a manager could have a hitter, a fielder, and a runner all in the same spot and swap them out.

The above in red is the correct rule, I blew the wording saying that the second player is done for the game. All of them can be switched in and out after all have met MPR, which is 3 CONSECUTIVE outs and 1 at bat.

Sorry for the confusion.

Tom

[mstaylor]

That's all right Tom, we will the Friday public flogging this afternoon. We'll let you know the location. :P

[1dumbquestion]

ok, I've now done a few games on the dish that required line up cards. the coaches sub CONSTANTLY and then I appearently pass it on the scorekeeper and opposing coach. over all it went ok. of coarse my card looked like a 3y/o drew all over it by the time the game was over and it probable took up 15 minutes of game time with all the delays. advice on being more efficient please. thanks 1

[moblue]

Don't mess with re-writing names. Just put a line through the starter's name and put the sub's number above it. Then scratch out the sub's name and number in the "substitutes" side of the card so you know he has been used already. When the starter re-enters cross out the number of the sub and leave both names crossed out. You know at that point the starter has re-entered the game. If the starter comes out again... just scribble through the name or something to where you know he is ineligible to come back into the game. I don't remember what I do in that situation, if anything. :givebeer:

Edited July 8, 2009 by moblue

[1dumbquestion]

Moblue. the trouble is that this is LL tourney rules and the starter and his sub never become ineligible... hence the scribbles all over my cards. 1

[moblue]

In that case... I have no idea. My lineup card would probably look the same.

Tell them to take care of it themselves. (Kidding!)

[willv28]

Moblue. the trouble is that this is LL tourney rules and the starter and his sub never become ineligible... hence the scribbles all over my cards. 1

Shouldn't need the scribbles. Once the sub has met their play reqs (which you're not responsible for telling them if they have or haven't met them). Then they're free to come in and out. All it should require is notifying the press box and the opposing coach the Johnny is back in for Jimmy, etc.

[someoneinca]

Shouldn't need the scribbles. Once the sub has met their play reqs (which you're not responsible for telling them if they have or haven't met them). Then they're free to come in and out. All it should require is notifying the press box and the opposing coach the Johnny is back in for Jimmy, etc.

But we need to know who is in and out for the SPR (special pinch runner) rule

[willv28]

But we need to know who is in and out for the SPR (special pinch runner) rule

I don't have to keep track of lineups. Only yesterday. But, there's usually only 1-2 bench players in our games. So it's easy to see which guy they're sending to run and for which player, the starter or sub and mark down who ran and who was run for and what inning.

Maybe, make a special mark signifying which player is in and just alternate it instead of scratching and rewriting.

[BHanlon]

A little late on the reply but what I do is just take notes on the back:

Everything has an up or down arrow to signify top or bottom then the inning.

#34 for #5 v 3 (bottom 3)

SPR #6 for ^ 4

OC (offensive conf) ^5

Renter #5 for #34 ^5

[okump96]

A little late on the reply but what I do is just take notes on the back:

Everything has an up or down arrow to signify top or bottom then the inning.

#34 for #5 v 3 (bottom 3)

SPR #6 for ^ 4

OC (offensive conf) ^5

Renter #5 for #34 ^5

exactly what i do.

[1dumbquestion]

thanks all, my season is over now but the last two posts seem just simple enough to work. I'll give them a try next year. thanks again, 1

[nolanadair]

This is in response to the first post on the thread.

Even if your league uses continuous batting order, you should still receive a line up card because you can still have batting out of order. Event hough you don't have subs or anything you still need to have have a line up card in order to know the batting order.

[sasmallen]

This is in response to the first post on the thread.

Even if your league uses continuous batting order, you should still receive a line up card because you can still have batting out of order. Event hough you don't have subs or anything you still need to have have a line up card in order to know the batting order.

The only league we have during the summer that gives us cards is the Connie Mack summer High School league.

Many leagues do not have the umpires keep lineups, this is a league decision and any BOO appeals are decided using the official book and lineup cards with it. This is very common in the Houston area. This year we had the PONY 13 South Zone (The winner of zone goes to the WS), and the Palomino (17, 18, and some 19 year olds) South Zone played here and at both, the PONY Zone Director kept the lineup cards and the Region Director kept the book. We didn't touch the cards. That might be weird, but if that's the way they want it, fine by me. If the league you are doing does not traditionally have the umpire keep cards, there's no reason for a umpire to request them.

[mstaylor]

I don't have a problem with the scorer keeping the cards and book, especially in LL where you can alter the line-up during the season. What I hate is in Regionals and WS games the manager has to come all the way to the backstop to give a change, even SPRs. My point is they could yell it to the PU and he could give it to the book. On a SPR all he has to do is say SPR, the rest is fairly easy to figure.