BU's positioning at "B" and "C"

[kwiggie]

I am looking for your opinions' on the BU position at stations "B" and "C" in a two ump system. What I am curious about is the anglefootage that you guys' takeuse for these stations as they relate to the moundrubber, or any other "infield reference" you might use. 99% of the games I work on are all dirt infields, so references to the "grass infield" are not really applicable.

[Umpire in Chief]

In either position you want to be straddling an imaginary line running from the plate through the infield and just off the edge of the mound.

In the B position you should get about 15' away from the pitcher. In the C position with runners on 2nd or 1st & 2nd you'd be the same position just on the other side. With a runner on 3rd, you move deeper.

[bassfam11]

In either position you want to be straddling an imaginary line running from the plate through the infield and just off the edge of the mound.

In the B position you should get about 15' away from the pitcher. In the C position with runners on 2nd or 1st & 2nd you'd be the same position just on the other side. With a runner on 3rd, you move deeper.

what UiC said

you just need to imagine you are on a grass infield, only way to do it

[blindumpire99]

PLUS--

Always face the plate, don't face 1st base or third base but look twoards the plate, a common mistake young umpires make.. Take a step in and then turn with the throw for better positioning on the pickoff.

You face the plate so as to be in position to call a balk if necessary and also you assist your partner with any appeal he may have, check swing, and to assist with a foul ball off the batter.

[zm1283]

15' from the mound is too close in B or C.

[daled]

For a LL game (12U Majors level) 15' is about where I would be. On a 60-90 field, I would be a little father away but not too much more, maybe 10 additional feet. Otherwise the information that UIC gave is exactly where you want to position yourself in both B and C.

[LMSANS]

For a LL game (12U Majors level) 15' is about where I would be. On a 60-90 field, I would be a little father away but not too much more, maybe 10 additional feet. Otherwise the information that UIC gave is exactly where you want to position yourself in both B and C.

:agasp_:Inside on a 60' field!?!? :banghead:

[kwiggie]

PLUS--

Always face the plate, don't face 1st base or third base but look twoards the plate, a common mistake young umpires make..

My first is a statement regarding the quote above. Is it really a mechanical flaw to not "chest up" to the plate while in the BC positions? I find myself in a stance that faces my body towards 1st ( but my head is fully focused on the pitcherplate. I personally feel more ready to "spring" and am more comfortablefocused as a result. I had a veteran ump a couple of weeks ago tell me the same thing Blindumpire said. I say that in this stance I am ready to movepivot and am assuming nothing in regards to action to come so how can I be at a disadvantage... opinions please?

My second is a question, I have read everyones mechanics about "B" and "C" and the focus is on depth (towards 2 base). I want to know about distance away (towards 1 base). The reason I ask is because as far as I could tell I was right on with UIC description of the line from home, edge of mound, 15'-20', so on. The other night another veteran of the league I got to work with told me to "get out of the batter's line of sight" and shift towards 1st base. He said to split the difference between edge of mound and were F4 sets up that is were I should be setting up. "The advantage to this " he told me "better veiw of the pick off at 1st, and if applied to the C position (split between mound and F6) with a runner on 2nd and a LH on the mound you can remain in the C and not be a distraction on a "wheel move" pick off attempt.

Any thoughts?

Edited June 15, 2009 by kwiggie
grammer

[Tyennie]

Da*n! Everyone has their own "interp" of where B and C are supposed to be. UIC has it right. If you have access to the 'redbook" (2-man system for pro ball) give it a read, good reference. I don't think you want to shade toward first, in B, because then you will be looking at the backside of the steal at 2B. that extra 2 or 3 steps could make a difference. I work the field square to the plate for the same reasons you give to work shoulders to the plate. I guess it is the "accepted" mechanic for working the infield; shoulders square, hands on knees set,....... (Like keeping your indicator in your left hand when working the plate. Can't begin to count the number of guys around here who use their right hand)

As far as being a distraction - :banghead:

[therefump]

:agasp_:Inside on a 60' field!?!?

I'm with Larry on that one. I just did a 70' field yesterday for the first time in ages and OMG was it small. I'd rather stay outside.:wave:

[Jeff C.]

In either position you want to be straddling an imaginary line running from the plate through the infield and just off the edge of the mound.

In the B position you should get about 15' away from the pitcher. In the C position with runners on 2nd or 1st & 2nd you'd be the same position just on the other side. With a runner on 3rd, you move deeper.

Thanks UIC for this! I struggled all year with my positioning regarding depth. I'm having a brain cramp though and can't figure out why you move deeper in C when you have a runner on third?

[blindumpire99]

When I mentioned a mistake young umpires make, I meant that I have seen those who stand with their body facing first base or third base as the mistake. I dinged a rookie while evaluating him earlier this year for this..

There is no play at first or third until the ball is thrown there..You step towards the plate then turn to get a better angle.

[catoblue]

:agasp_:Inside on a 60' field!?!?

My thoughts exactly!!! I always stay outside on a small diamond. There just isn't enough real-estate on a small diamond infield to stay out of the way.

[noumpere]

Is it really a mechanical flaw to not "chest up" to the plate while in the BC positions?

Yes, it's a flaw. When the pick-off is thrown to first (whether from F1 or F2, you want to tak a step or two toward the plate / 45' line, and then pivot for the call at first. You can't do that if you're facing first to begin with.

My second is a question, I have read everyones mechanics about "B" and "C" and the focus is on depth (towards 2 base). I want to know about distance away (towards 1 base). The reason I ask is because as far as I could tell I was right on with UIC description of the line from home, edge of mound, 15'-20', so on. The other night another veteran of the league I got to work with told me to "get out of the batter's line of sight" and shift towards 1st base.

Were you in line with the edge of the MOUND (9' to the F1's left), or were you in line with the RUBBER (or was the mound not the "correct" size? Then, 1/2 way between the rubber and second.

If you were in the correct spot, ignore the "veteran".

Someone else asked, "Why work deeper C with R3 only?"

Becasue you still have a good angle for a pick-off at third (especially if you move in a step or two on the throw), and you're less likely to get hit with the batted ball in deep C. You must be in "regular C" with R2 for the pick-off at second, and to get an angle on the steal of third.

Of course, you need to adjust your deep C (and all the positions) based on the infield coverage.

[Umpire in Chief]

15' from the mound is too close in B or C.

I get as close as I feel comfortable. Which is closer than most. I feel I'm still agile enough to dodge at this distance. I'll be proven wrong one day and need a full set of dentures, but until then I love the angle I get.

[kwiggie]

Were you in line with the edge of the MOUND (9' to the F1's left), or were you in line with the RUBBER (or was the mound not the "correct" size? Then, 1/2 way between the rubber and second.

In line with the edge of mound, I believe the mound to be correct dimensions or very close to.

[Umpire in Chief]

I just made a crude drawing using the playing field dimensions diagram from OBR. I reread my original reply and thought it could be hard to conceptualize.

Note this is not to scale but close enough.

[daled]

:agasp_:Inside on a 60' field!?!?

Yes I always work inside. I feel I am in the best position here. I have never been hit or should I say unable to get out of the way of the ball. Some day I may not be so lucky but for now I will work from inside.

[mstaylor]

PLUS--

Always face the plate, don't face 1st base or third base but look twoards the plate, a common mistake young umpires make..

My first is a statement regarding the quote above. Is it really a mechanical flaw to not "chest up" to the plate while in the BC positions? I find myself in a stance that faces my body towards 1st ( but my head is fully focused on the pitcherplate. I personally feel more ready to "spring" and am more comfortablefocused as a result. I had a veteran ump a couple of weeks ago tell me the same thing Blindumpire said. I say that in this stance I am ready to movepivot and am assuming nothing in regards to action to come so how can I be at a disadvantage... opinions please?

My second is a question, I have read everyones mechanics about "B" and "C" and the focus is on depth (towards 2 base). I want to know about distance away (towards 1 base). The reason I ask is because as far as I could tell I was right on with UIC description of the line from home, edge of mound, 15'-20', so on. The other night another veteran of the league I got to work with told me to "get out of the batter's line of sight" and shift towards 1st base. He said to split the difference between edge of mound and were F4 sets up that is were I should be setting up. "The advantage to this " he told me "better veiw of the pick off at 1st, and if applied to the C position (split between mound and F6) with a runner on 2nd and a LH on the mound you can remain in the C and not be a distraction on a "wheel move" pick off attempt.

Any thoughts?

Yes, it is a huge mistake to not square to the plate. First you always want to chest to ball. Second, on a batted ball in the infield, you need to chest up and if it is on the left side of the infield you will be looking the wrong way. Finally, the biggest reason to square is to be able to avoid being hit. If you are standing sideways and the ball comes right at you, the first instinct is to step away. If ou do that, the first is usually straight back, whichg what we call the step to nowhere. It hasn't help you avoid anything, it just put you a step further away.

Do as UIC said, draw a line from the plate to where the mound meets the flat of the inield. The guy that told you to move off that line is wrong. Read the Fed manual, the PBUC red book, the CCA manual, the LL manual or any other I haven't mentioned and they will all say the same thing.

[Jeff C.]

I always stay square to the plate. Just seems natural. Now I get why you move into a deeper C when necessary and adjust according to the infielders. After looking at UIC's drawing, I think I'm a little deeper than he in the "normal" B & C positions. Not quite as agile anymore:)

[mstaylor]

Most use the 2/3 between the mound and second. I am like UIC, I work much closer than that. I found that I got too close at second on a steal. I got dinged at college for being too close but I only been hit once and that was a glancing hit on the toe.

[LMSANS]

I have usually worked B & C deeper than UIC's drawing, but after this weekend, I'm rethinking this strategy.

Lefty F1, adult ball, steps towards first (closer to 45' mark than 1st, but OK on the step). Runner says that he leans toward home before stepping. Same R1 got picked by 2 different leftys in 2 different games. Same excuse. Coach backed him up on second one. They obviously have a better view of a lean.

My question, if I'm closer to F1 can I see that lean better? I can't think of any other reason to move in...but this could be enough...at least when a lefty is pitching.

[mstaylor]

The lean is going to have to be the PU's call. The reason I work closer is so I can just pivot on a pick instead of taking a step and a turn. I start a little closer than the step would give you. It will get you hit if you aren't careful.

[LMSANS]

The lean is going to have to be the PU's call. The reason I work closer is so I can just pivot on a pick instead of taking a step and a turn. I start a little closer than the step would give you. It will get you hit if you aren't careful.

The first game I was BU and didn't see the lean. The second game, I'm PU and still didn't see the lean. My partner didn't see either lean.

I will have these guys again over the summer. I guess I have to focus more.

[mstaylor]

If both of are not seeing it then it may not be there. It may be that they are not looking at the right things as the offensive team.