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Everything posted by noumpere

  1. Yes -- that's the only mention of "hurdle" in the rule book. The case book as ha few case plays that have it listed. The rule itself (and case plays) are somewhat contradictory -- hurdling is listed under interference, but it can be an out with no interference as well, and you can have contact / hindrance (over an outstretched glove, for example) without it being either an out or interference. 8-4-2 ART. 2 . . . Any runner is out when he: a. runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base; 1. This is not an infraction if a fielder attempting to field a batted ball is in the runner's proper path and if the runner runs behind the fielder to avoid interfering with him. 2. When a play is being made on a runner or batter-runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base toward which he is moving. b. does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases; or 1. A runner may slide in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. 2. Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal. (2-32-1, 2) Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. Diving over a fielder is illegal. PENALTY: The runner is out. Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately. On a force-play slide with less than two outs, the runner is declared out, as well as the batter-runner. Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch. With two outs, the runner is declared out. The batter is credited with a fielder's choice. c. does not legally attempt to avoid a fielder in the immediate act of making a play on him; or PENALTY: The runner is out, the ball remains live unless interference is called. d. dives over a fielder; or PENALTY: The runner is out and the ball remains live unless interference occurs and is declared.
  2. I know. If RH F1 just turns to his left and throws to second, that's legal. But if he first lifts the leg (to use another phrase from the OP) toward the balance point (iow, starts a move to his right) and THEN turns left to go to second, that's a balk. I (at least initially) read the play as the second above. Other answers led me to believe that maybe I was misreading it and "lifts his leg" meant only "enough to clear his cleats as part of an initial / normal spin to the left"
  3. Huh? I must be mis-reading this, because I would have PUT take third if U1 goes out (or maybe the mechanics have changed) That's the same as in two-man.
  4. Maybe I'm misreading the play, and maybe it depends on the specific meaning of "lifts his leg" -- but if that latter phrase means something like "toward (or to) the "balance point" -- then I have a balk if RH F1 then turns counterclockwise (past home, past first) to throw to second.
  5. Reading Is Fundamental. (But, we've all made a similar mistake.)
  6. And I'd add the corollary -- if the fielder lifts the ball straight up without any other movement, then he had it in his grasp
  7. I once had three "guidelines" for umpires that covered 95% of all the situations. Unfortunately, I can only remember two of the three:: 1) If someone goes out, revert to two-person (you can make this happen more my requiring an umpire on the line to go out on a fly ball in his half of the field) 2) Look to your left -- if there's no umpire at that base, run toward it (I might add -- although I don't think this is one of those three -- for the PU, the coverage is the same as with two-person)
  8. Yes -- it's legal to hurdle (but not to dive ) over the outstretched arm of a fielder. There's a specific case on it: 8.2.1 SITUATION D : R1 is on third with no outs. R1 attempts to score on a fly ball to F8. F8's throw to F2 is near perfect. R1 sees that the play is going to be close. As F2 stretches for the ball to tag R1, R1 attempts to hurdle F2's outstretched arms as the ball bounces in front of the plate and skips into deadball territory. As R1 is in the air, F2's glove catches R1's foot and both lose their balance and tumble to the ground. (a) R1 gets up and proceeds to the dugout or (b) R1 crawls back and touches the plate. RULING: Hurdling the outstretched arms of a fielder is legal. Hurdling or jumping over a fielder who is not lying on the ground is illegal. In (a), the umpire shall call R1 out for missing the plate upon a proper defensive appeal. In (b), R1's run would count.
  9. I would make that the mechanic, although "down the line" might be too extreme. But, those in charge don't ask me. I'll add to my previous rationale -- if there's an overthrow at first, PU can stay with the ball more easily than BU (recognizing that with two umpires and multiple runners and an overthrow, something is going to get less coverage than it might otherwise get).
  10. noumpere

    Called Game

    I've heard umpires orally state "Ball Game" -- but it has no official formal meaning (other than maybe in a weather or similar situation) in any code I am aware of. The game ends when the game ends by rule -- not when the umpire makes some declaration
  11. I've seen similar called in MLB before, and I've called not much more than that in NAIA. I agree with Maven on the U13, but I've also seen a couple of hard steps NOT called at that level -- and I would have called it.
  12. Yes. The rule says "attempts to go to second" (or words to that effect) -- nothing about which way the BR must turn. From OBR (but all codes are similar): (11) He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged;
  13. Agreed -- but that's only some of the time and even then, PU won't get as good a look as he would have by going up the first-base side to begin with
  14. Yes, you must eject. From the book: n. initiate malicious contact on offense or defense; PENALTY: The umpire shall eject the offender from the game. Failure to comply shall result in game being forfeited. In (n), the ball is immediately dead, if on offense, the player is ejected and declared out, unless he has already scored. If the defense commits the malicious contact, the player is ejected; the umpire shall rule either safe or out on the play and award the runner(s) the appropriate base(s) he felt they would have obtained if the malicious contact had not occurred.
  15. Standard, but not as good as having PU come up the first base line, imo. There's a far greater chance of a swipe tag then there is of a play to third AND it's harder to get right without PU's help.
  16. And, we can't (or don't ) practice them at clinics -- we get lots of practice taking plays at first, and working on the double play drift, etc.
  17. "Hindrance" can (and usually does) happen before the collision. Whether that happened in your case is hard to judge without video. These case plays (from 2014) might be useful: 8.3.2 SITUATION 😄 F2 is in the path between third base and home plate while waiting to receive a thrown ball. R1 advances from third and runs into the catcher, after which R1 is tagged out. RULING: Obstruction. F2 cannot be in the base path without the ball in his possession, nor can he be in the base path waiting for a ball to arrive without giving the runner some access to home plate. 8.3.2 SITUATION I: R1 is attempting to score from third and F8 throws the ball to F2. F2 is four or five feet down the line between home and third, but is not actually able to catch the ball in order to make the tag. R1, rather than running into F2, slides behind F2 into foul territory and then touches home plate with his hand. After R1 slides, F2 catches the ball and attempts to tag R1 but misses. The coach of the offensive team coaching at third base claims that obstruction should have been called even though there was no contact. RULING: Obstruction. Contact does not have to occur for obstruction to be ruled. F2 cannot be in the baseline without the ball if it is not in motion and a probable play is not going to occur, nor can he be in the baseline without giving the runner access to home plate.
  18. noumpere

    Runs Scoring

    Choose one or all: Jim Evans documents 123 (or some such) "known errors" in the book. The rule book is written by gentlemen, for gentlemen, not by lawyers, for lawyers. Any little change requires massive negotiations and give backs in other areas to get it through both the owners and players. So, it's easier to implement changes (especially those that reflect the way it's been called) by interpretation. Some fight / rail against this discrepancy; some just learn to live with it. This is from JR (others have similar wording / plays / interps):
  19. What the mods do in their personal life is of no concern to me
  20. He obviously had enough of a lead for F2 to try the pickoff (unless you think F2 "reacted" to the batter and just threw the ball in an attempt to buy a call). As maven says, we can't judge this without video, and different people might have different judgment. But if RH batter ends up in the LH batter's box -- that's a lot of evidence supporting an INT call.,
  21. noumpere

    Runs Scoring

    Some saying about a blind squirrel and a nut comes to mind.
  22. noumpere

    Runs Scoring

    R1 was forced at the time he missed the base, so his appeal out is a force out. No runs can score when the third out is a force out.
  23. All of the above (and probably most of the below), plus one league that had Partial pay at the first pitch, plus a "per inning fee" for the first 5 innings to reach the full game fee. So, for example, if the full game fee was $70, then $35 to start, plus $5 / inning for the first 5 innings. So, if we cancelled in the middle of the second, $45. Different leagues had different definitions of "leave the house: -- sometimes the league had to notify us 2 hours before game time; some 4 hours; some as little as an hour.
  24. Agreed. If the ball was intentionally dropped, then BR is out and R1 is safe -- so, same answer. If the ball really was "snared then dropped" then BR is out on the catch and R1 is safe (since he wasn't appealed (base wasn't tagged) before he returned -- so, same answer.
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