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Posts posted by Umpire942

  1. 16 hours ago, noumpere said:

    If it's dead, then how can the defense make an appeal?  The ball can't be dead for some purposes but live for others.

    appeals are made live, and durring dead ball all the time, and in the play above could have claimed the other runner who i did not whisper to, didnt touch third.

    But as for dead for some live for others obviously not.  You will not answer the question.  So as I am going to continue to assume, if a game winning run comes in.  (even though base runners have to continue their running responsibilities) the ball is dead.


  2. 1 minute ago, noumpere said:

    Why would he be out, if it wasn't INT?


    And, is there something in the rule book where the umpire says "game over" and it means something?  Or, is it just a (bad) habit that too many youth umpires get into?

    INT/OUT yes sorry


    I am breaking down just this subject.  A baseball game is completed.  But we all know the general rule, its not over until both umpires leave.  So im elaborating on this grey area here.  Where the PU says "GAME OVER".  Is the ball dead at this time.  I would assume so

  3. 47 minutes ago, maven said:

    What noumpere said.

    The OP tipped the defense in game 1 by sticking around. He hurt the defense in game 2 by coaching the runners. 

    The game is over when the winning run scores. We need to leave the field as usual. Rule on appeals if and only if they're begun before we (both) get off the field (and yes, there's a definition of that).

    i did not tip the defense in game one, they picked up on that appeal on their own.  "me saying kicking rocks" i, literally took 5 seconds to look at what the base runners did, and what his did, and BU came in running into the plate and were collecting drinks and items.  Were were not literally kicking rocks and staying on the field.  There is no rule that we have to leave the field immediately after the game is over and have to rush off.


    Game 2 was more of a no, no.  But nobody had any clue, and thankfully I was right as no appeal was made or even though about, gave the runner a teachable moment and made him touch.


    The main QUESTION in this thread was touching that no batted ball, if that was any violation. 

  4. 8 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

    I am rusty on my FED rule on this, but in NCAA and OBR, only the batter-runner and R3 must fulfill their obligations to touch the next base, R1 and R2 do not have to.

    I am curious what others think because when I read what you said to the runners, that sounds an awful lot like "coaching", and if I was the defensive coach who wanted to appeal, I would be incredulous that I lost that chance because I heard you tell him to go touch the base.  Now, if the runner asked me directly "do I need to touch the next base", I might give a smart-aleck answer like "even if you didn't, is it worth the risk to not run 20 more feet?" because in my mind, there is no reason not to go touch the base.  You do it all game every game for years, so why do you need to go celebrate 1.4 seconds earlier?

    As for the ball, that is not a batted ball, so touching it means nothing unless he intentionally interfered with a play.  The catcher rolling the ball on the ground and he kicks while running to celebrate is a whole lot of nothing.


    I would never help the runner, but i can tell you, everybody thought the game was over except me.


    6 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

    Oh, and to answer your question in the title....they lose the right to appeal when the infielders have left fair territory and the catcher has left the "dirt circle" (plate area if there is no defined circle)

    all infielders did not leave fair territory yet

  5. This was FED rules.  I had this play happen already once in the regular high school season.  Bases were loaded,  2 outs, base hit, BR goes to first, R3 on third comes home.  All other runners , and players from bench come out on to field to celebrate.

    I kick rocks around as I know they celebrated prematurely as runners did not complete their running responsibilities as i was watching home and 3rd base, partner was watching 2nd for touches.  It was a bit delayed, we started to walk off, and coach yells Mike throw it to 3rd base.  I immediately signal OUT, and said RUN does not score.  (the other team wins in the bottom of next inning)... crazy.

    Anyway, this weekend same play, but i was on base duties.  The runner says to me i didnt even have to touch second base.  I should have said nothing, but i told you him you go touch that base now, you can be out.    But there was a twist this time and want to know what people think.   1) the PU called Game Over.   2) the baseball was thrown by the catcher to to the mound for some reason, and the runner touched the somewhat live ball?  I then told him to go touch third.

    Was that ball still live?  could I have called him out?

  6. I know, I would never say anything to a coach, player, fan or anything standing in B or C , when a very frustrated pitcher is not getting strikes.  The situation was the game is a mens league that allows for up to 3 MiLB or higher players.  Although none were present on either side of this game.  I could see the pitchers frustration early, and what hes trying to say to me, but i do not respond, obviously.  But,  I could not see anything wrong with a good 5 pitches in the first 2 innings..i can see his argument but im not behind the plate, im not really seeing them.

    I could kind of see it coming, Was there something i could have done or say to my partner?  Hey your squeezing them a little too much?  No umpire wants to hear about his strike zone, let alone from another umpire.  But i am his PARTNER.

    First altercation happens, PU asserts back to the pitcher, "There balls!, there balls! " .

    2 innings go by,  the pitcher starts saying things to the umpire, body language, and then, HERE WE GO throws the hat, says you suck, bang hes gone, they start to argue, im like ok, now i can do SOEMTHING,  let me do my job now and take over.  Not only do i have the pitcher to keep back , i have two others on the bench saying its not right.  Im de-escalating like crazy, told partner to just stay over there and relax.

    anyway, in this Situation, would you want a base umpire to say, hey some of those are good and your too tight this is not MLB? and change your strike zone?  I dont think I would want to hear it.   Anything I could have done?  or was this a fire i could not stop.



  7. 14 hours ago, Recontra said:

    My up and down strike zone varies considerably depending on the level of play. One of the best things I ever did for my strike zone after I worked a game where I was calling 80 mph strikes at or just below the textbook "halfway" point, is I had a long post-game in the parking lot with my partner who had been a high school baseball coach for 27 years. He showed me what a good batter could and could not get a bat on with a natural swing. In my neck of the woods, if you're banging them at the numbers in a varsity game with kids throwing in the 80's, you better be wearing some hearing protection. In all the years I've been umpiring, I don't think I've ever heard a coach complain if strikes are consistently NOT being called above the belly button. They'll bitch about where they think the "knees" ought to be, but I've yet to hear them yell that they didn't get a strike called that was above the belly button but below the halfway point. The don't want it there. Nobody actually in that game wants it there. But if you do call it there, plan on your pitchers working on top the entire game.

    Just my two very unofficial cents.

    thank you for the cents

  8. 12 hours ago, noumpere said:


    I am unclear what you want.  Either it's just a humble brag type of post, or you are calling the zone used in your area, or you are too sensitive to the isolated complaints, or ....

    whats preferable to call, the knee caps or the letters.  cause i think you hear more about the high ones, then the 9 iron comment

    ATXBlue 's answer was helpful

    Should have made this a poll, sorry for confusion

  9. 6 minutes ago, ATXBlue said:


    The top should be the midpoint between the shoulders and waistline. The letters are a good frame of reference, but at least in my area of the country coaches seems to want us to get the low strike than venture up into the high strike. 


    I generally use the bottom hand of the batter, I have found it gives a good frame of reference to the midpoint unless they have a weird stance. Then of course I get out my tape measurer from my 3rd ball bag that I wear hanging off the back and get an exact measurement. 


    • Like 1

    57 minutes ago, LMSANS said:

    Your strike zone definition is inaccurate

    Fed - The strike zone is that space over home plate, the top of which is halfway between the batter's shoulders and the waistline, and the bottom being the knees, when he assumes his natural batting stance...

    MLB - The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap.

    Maybe you want to rephrase your question.

    good luck calling a strike at the shoulders

  11. 1 minute ago, noumpere said:

    Might depend on how the uniform is designed and worn. ;)


    That said, if "everyone" is complaining about your zone at a particular level, then it's likely to big / small / wide / narrow for that level in your location.  If it's only one coach in one game, then ignore the complaint (or address it as part of game management, but don't change the zone).

    No EVERYONE is not complaining,  But if i hear a somebody thinking i missed (not make one), a game or 2.   Usually pitcher wanted just under the knee caps, and batters made at balls above the belly button at letters.  Ill know most batters prefer the inside strike , then the outside strike.


    since i dont know the high, low statstic, asking wether the community likes to call the knee benders or the high hard strikes just below the letters

  12. FED book, armpits to knees and accordance to batters "natural stance"

    MLB we know is the belt to the knees.

    I get flack for not calling those 9 iron just a hair below the knee caps, and calling strikes that are at letters/above belly button.


    I have a great strike zone, but you always get those complainers, and everyone can miss a pitch in these areas.  So I wish i could take a poll on this one


    A. Strike at bottom of knee caps!  (i know the pitcher wants it, but that batter really would have to go down and get that one.


    B. Strike at the letters! (hitters shouldnt complain, these usually get hit allot with left up)


    C. BOTH


  13. A coach thinks you missed a call.  We all know 2 man, especially with multiple runners and in far away positions at TOP.  You have to make a call, and you saw him tagged out.  Head first slide, I had him tagged in the shoulder at 3b. (where the base coach who was also right there is mad and asking)

    Do we have to answer where it was , especially when its not asked nicely?   

    on opposite, on the safes, does it help to say nope "he got his arm to the bag first" out loud ? (pick off)

  14. On 7/17/2021 at 8:41 PM, Guest So to confirm said:

    If he steps off  as a left handed pitcher with man on first , if his foot is still in the air , and either fakes or throws , If the throw or dent was before the foot hit the ground , it’s a ball correct?

    I think the user has mobile typo markers.   

    the question is:

    If he steps off (as a left handed pitcher with man on first ), if his foot is still in the air and either fakes or throws the throw or fent was before the foot hit the ground , it’s a balk correct?

    The answer by @noumpere and in practice is as long as the ball released and hes touching the ground, not the motion itself.

  15. 13 minutes ago, noumpere said:

    Yes -- but that doesn't seem to be the issue here.  It's not a balk for throwing to an unoccupied base; it's a balk for not stepping immediately and directly to the base.

    I did need clarification again on another question which I thought we went over here.  

    Its my fault for not watching all the footwork to be 100% certain as needed to at some point look at the tag and missed the first play (balk) which is the most important.

    anyway,   pitcher claim he pump faked to second and stepped and then went to third.  I did not see that , i confirmed with that what I explained on the miss to PU the same with the 3rd base coach as what the step balk was and overturned my out call to a balk, was indeed eventually correct. 


    I then stated an inning or 2 later to PU that if he stepped to third that would not have been a balk, and he said it was and would be deceiving the runner.  I said im pretty sure its not (as the thread was linked above talking about this)


  16. FED rules but would like to know if NCAA difference.

    R2 on 2B, 1 out.

    Im watching pitcher (not good enough though) but runner had a good jump, throw ends up at third.    PU calls no balk.  I call no balk and signal out.    Coach is saying THAT IS A BALK.

    Now because i looked to fast to the base for the tag, i wasnt looking close enough.  After the conference with plate , I explained the left hander, lifted his leg turned, but did not step towards second but spun past and stepped and through to 3rd.  PU says well call balk then.

    After explaining to PU he says call balk and loud.

    Pitcher claims he was already planning a step fake to second and is yelling at me thats what he did.  1) no way he would have got him if he did.   2) it was all in one motion through like I explained.


    So 2 questions:


    1) If he did in fact pump fake to 2nd, then it would not have been a balk?

    2) I could have sworn we had a thread here about balks and throwing to unoccupied bases, and that it was legal if the runner is stealing. PU says no , thats always a balk even if stealing


    (obviously stepping off anything would be legal)



  17. 3 minutes ago, agdz59 said:

    Yes.  But if the pitcher engages the pitcher's plate to help the deception, I'm calling a balk every time.  Same with the case if time was dead and he engages the plate to get me to put the ball in play.  The defense has deceived.  By rule, I'm calling the balk.

    above i said the pitcher is off the mound, let alone plate

  18. they dont have to call time, catcher can stay at home if runner goes.  ump doesnt give time, wasnt asked, ball was handed to 3rd baseman, pitcher ties show, or grabs rossin, of the mound.  No problem here , he out no?

  19. 14 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

    9+games?! What time are you starting and stopping in the morning and evening, and how short are the games. 18 hours of plate in 90+ heat in one day is crazy! 

    innings, so a 9 mens + 7 18u  inning game in 90, both plate, my i kept up with pitches, but had a miss at the plate at catcher INF (possible)


    regardless is both plate, i do have days and weekends will I will have 18 on a sat and 18 on a sun. (not even talking about after hours during the week)


    looking for staying cool tips

  20. Not sure how i have made it though the years, but its really starting to get to me.  I purchased a 200$ thin vest which is supposed to last 4 hours.  How its going to fit under a WV is beyond me, but im giving anything a try.

    how to do 9 let alone 9+ on a 90+ day.  + behind the plate.   Are you just asking for health trouble, let alone a miss?

    What are the best tips, my problem is upper body and head heat, not really feat/legs

  21. 2 hours ago, maven said:

    You have the rule correct-ish, but your operationalization of it and game management need rethinking.

    A runner is out when he runs more than 3 feet from (around) a fielder trying to tag him. To be called out, we need a runner and a fielder with the ball making a tag attempt. Otherwise, runners may go where they will.

    Ducking, rolling, jumping (as long as it's not over the fielder) do not violate this provision. If that's what you saw, and the runner did not go more than 3 feet wide of the fielder, then I'd say you ruled correctly.

    "A step and a reach" is, however, considerably more than 3 feet for all but the very smallest players. Most men's arms are about 3 feet: if they have to move at all to reach a runner avoiding a tag, then we should call the out. I love this provision, and never miss an opportunity to call runners out for violating it. We can avoid many a clown rodeo by availing ourselves of it.




    I didnt say stay and a reach, i say 3 feet, step, or reach.

    2 hours ago, maven said:

    The phrase "a step and a reach" shows up in umpire manuals not for this rule, but for judging whether a fielder who boots a batted ball is still protected. Only if the booted ball remains within a step and a reach does the protection remain; otherwise, he's liable for OBS as usual.

    You didn't ask about your game management approach, but I recommend that you reconsider yours. When coach comes out "heated," he's got something to get off his chest. Don't interrupt with information you think he needs: that comes off as confrontational.

    Let him have his say. Listen carefully. But I don't allow coaches to yell at me: "Coach, I'm right here listening, please stop yelling."

    When he got personal, you said "that's it!" What does that mean? I suggest communicating more directly: if you're warning/restricting him, then say so directly. "Coach, we're done here, and this is your warning. You're restricted to the dugout." [This was a FED game.] Merely saying "that's it!" could mean anything.

    Given what he said, the EJ is a no-brainer—no problem there. My point is that better game management might have defused the situation. And even if it didn't, it would look better (including on the fans' videos of the game).

    I did want to bring up thoughts on game management but i was mobile and didnt want to ask to many question in thread, thanks for this input as well.

    This was not a restriction situation, as it would have put him actually closer to me ,  normally i would restrict coaches that are 1b or 3b coaches.  But normally use this is regulation, county, state HS games.    This was 17u travel, under FED.


    see these where tag was avoided,  If i see a tag with the runner not doing anything, i could assume hes out of the baseline.  Again, im solo here with no angle, take everything here with grain of salt


  22. 2 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

    but just because he doesn't slide, doesn't mean he interfered either ....

    right, thats the judgement part

    was it going to be a play there, did he not throw because a body in front of him and didnt want to knock him in the head, or pivots awkward to move around him, etc.  

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