Velho

So why didn't Marmol come out?

At work we sum this up as "don't ask questions you don't want answers to"

They'll get to it right after they figure out how to fix NIL. 😁

What if there the fielder "obviously not making an attempt to retire the runner" gets the out? See 8:15 mark of below. Same reasoning for this balk call? This was after OP (viral umpiring / awareness piqued following OP?). https://www.mlb.com/video/condensed-game-atl-tb-4-12-25

I gotta ask....

Oh sure! There’s been instances in the NBA and the NHL – both Pro (uppercase) – wherein, in the case of the NBA, punches are thrown, but nothing connected, and the conflict was neutralized. Sometimes those enactors have been ejected or removed, but they don’t manifest as free throws or ball possession (changing). In the NHL – different than minor-league hockey – fighting is… tolerated, to a point at which both participants are removed from the contest (5 minute major? 10 minute game misconduct?), but I think the removals / dismissals don’t affect the two clubs’ penalty status… unless of course, a foul is what sparked off the fight Not to get too far into mierenneuken but in NBA a thrown punch is EJ by rule (how it's done in practice is a different thing obviously) and NHL removes the players though they stay 5v5 as you allude. Possibility for nothing in baseball is interesting to me. I appreciate the conversation. Thanks.

Because, rightly so, @Replacematt is addressing what could escalate by retaliation. In our exact OP, if we expand it a bit… what if F3 had tagged him hard, and R1 took exception to it, and after getting back to his feet, he swung at F3? We do have to look at context here. These are adults, and these are Pros (uppercase). We (as umpires) must adjudicate, but we cannot impose our own “moral and ethical standards” here Interesting. Any level besides Pro that trying to punch an opponent, regardless of reason, doesn't get an EJ? Can you think of any other sport that allows it to go unpenalized* in game? * Again, back to baseball having EJ as only immediate recourse

No, there isn't always a penalty beside ejection, but it's moot, since this isn't MC. Are you really going to call R1 out if he retaliates in kind? You know what I'm doing as F3 with the tying run on base with two out in the bottom of the ninth (seventh.) I was talking about ejecting OP F3 for taking a swing at R1. Not sure how that turned into anything about R1.

@Ms.Tescmacher - Take a note: Fire the headline writer. Taking the general to the specific: is there any way you don't eject for the OP at any level? MC isn't always an out or advancement for the aggrieved, is it? Runner MC after scoring for example.

For the first 28 seconds the credibility of announcers skyrocketed!

Well that escalated quickly

Looks to have been bottom of the 6th in this game https://www.gowasps.com/sports/bsb/2024-25/boxscores/20250412_k036.xml?view=plays&inning=6 Not seeing highlights posted and the full game is behind a paywall https://www.flobaseball.tv/events/13486850-2025-newberry-vs-emory-henry

Change the scenario: F4 fielding a ground ball near 2B in R1's base path, R1 doesn't deviate because F4 is 30+ feet away, ball goes through F4's legs, F4 stays stationary rethinking his life choices and hinders R1 getting to 2B. F4 was protected to attempt the play but is no longer protected by the time he hinders R1. OBS or no? Alternate play, same ground ball near 2B, F6 charges into R1's basepath, a) fields the ball and is mowed over by R1, b) whiffs the ball and one step later collides into R1 a) not OBS. It's an out on the "tag" or INT (we'll defer that conversation for now though) b) OBS?

Why would an umpire need to overrun first base? 😋 My excessively myopic view was better suited to a play at 2B with R1 knocked over and injured by F6 after rounding 2B but with not intention to go to 3B. If R1 is tagged off the bag and you invoke OBS, you have to advance them to 3B in NFHS (and just back to 2B in other sets)

But once the fielder is no longer fielding a batted ball (or a near deflection of a batted ball) but hinders the runner, isn’t that OBS?

Goodness the announcers are clueless

It took me a while (I'm thick).

Who's got two thumb and just bought their 4th mask in two years?

If he overran 1B, collided with F3, never made a move to 2B, there’s no obstruction, he simply over ran the base and hasn’t gone back yet. I think you're being too rational. 😉 Strict interp of NFHS would say you can't have it both ways - if there is no OBS, he's out because he was tagged while off the base. If he's not out because of OBS that occurred after 1B, the mandatory +1 award sends him to 2B. No?

We're talking NFHS here so what non-OBS basis are you using to call the off-base BR safe at 1B? Or, are you debating the 2B award for OBS on the off-base BR?

Adding for sake of completion: ...which would be an award of 2B by rule in NFHS.

You can see from the conversation that the mechanics have room for improvement (as well as the coaching if I'm honest - this is why you see catchers tag runners even on a caught 3K). OP as presented, if it got this far on me, that's one I'd take my lumps for and place the runner back on 3rd - and subsequently spend a lot of time figuring out what broke down so we never got to that place again.

Let's take that one out to its logical conclusion: so as long as the runner stays outside "tagging distance" there is no base path established. Do we really think a game of infinite tag was the intent when they wrote this rule over 160 years ago? As @Replacematt said, there is room for subjectivity and judgment - which is exactly what umps need to use on these plays.