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Posts posted by Biscuit

  1. 1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:


    am i reading correctly, that under MLB Zone Evaluator system, Mr. West did not miss a pitch, 166 for 166. Under UEFL system he missed 2 pitches, 164 for 166, and under ML public system (which just plots a dot from the exact center/middle/1.47 inches/ on the ball) he missed 7 pitches, 159 for 166. just trying to figure out the charts. thanks.

    Yes, that's how it works

  2. I can't give a definitive answer for FED, but I know OBR and NCAA allow only the on deck batter (and the current batter while between innings or a new pitcher is brought in). The idea being, the rules state that the only members of the offensive team permitted to be on the playing field are the batter, on deck batter, runners, and base coaches. In practice, is that actually enforced? Outside of this specific application, no, but in College and Professional baseball, the umpires are expected to disallow batters from warming up that are not the current or on deck batters. I imagine FED is the same

  3. On 9/15/2021 at 9:48 AM, Jimurray said:

    Slightly off topic, I'm not a fan of a safe signal when the PU doesn't judge an offer. Is this something that's being taught lately?

    Yeah, no, thats not a thing... Well, I guess, based off your experience it is a thing, but it shouldn't. At pro school they teach the verbal "Ball! No he didn't go!", but even that's a bit much. If you really want to clarify that you saw the check and are ruling it no swing, then "ball, no he didn't!" is plenty

    • Like 1
  4. 13 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

    Is there a provision for nonsensical time-wasting appeals?   I could see, back in the day, someone like Billy Martin appealing "did he go" on every ball just to make some kind of point.

    I don't think so... So, I would invoke 8.01(c) to rule on the situation of a manager making clearly frivolous appeals, and refuse to appeal on a pit h that the batter made absolutely no attempt to swing. If Billy (or whoever) didn't like it, I'd let whoever handles appeals in whatever league decide if it's a valid application if 8.01(c). Even if they don't, it would certainly not have a real effect on the game, and no replay of the game would (or at least, should) be ordered.

    And there's a very real possibility I'm tossing Billy after the first time I refuse... Would probably put an end to it.

  5. On 9/12/2021 at 9:20 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

    Thank you as always, brothers...

    Where I'm also struggling is this business of yelling across the field instead of approaching players and managers. Not everyone who yells has their blood up. Sometimes people yell to be heard across a ballfield and its misinterpreted as anger. I was trained that an umpire should not escalate. We merely respond to what those on the field choose to do and say.

    When I have remained in place (on the plate...dirt circle, in the field...in place) to handle these kinds of situations, I was told by leadership not to yell across the field because that is perceived as escalating. Approach people calmly and use a normal tone and firm voice regardless of their tone. Then the perception is...THEY are being unreasonable.

    And yet, this clearly isn't congruent with what other very experienced and veteran umpires have said here...

    Yes, I try to be liked. It's important to me I am liked. That's who I am. And I wasted way too many years of my life not wanting to be liked and I didn't like the person that attitude turned me into. Maybe that'll mean I don't reach my umpiring aspirations...but, it will allow me to reach my human aspirations and respect and care for my fellow human being even when they are not being respectful to me.


    The thread has moved on a bit since last I checked in, but I want to respond to this. The point I hope your leadership was trying to make is that you should never be the aggressor (although, frankly, I'm not even sure that is 100% accurate). If a coach is yelling or talking loud enough to you hear, you're not the only one that can hear it. By not responding in kind, you're not being, well, unkind, you're standing up for yourself. You said earlier that what we allow we promote. At best, by not immediately responding to an accusation yelled at you from across the field, it creates an impression that it's okay to yell at umpires in the minds if the fans and players/coaches that are not informed of your later communication. That's the best case scenario. 

    Switching gears, being liked (especially in the form of respect) does not preclude having disagreements or confrontations.  There is a particular team that I had quite a few times this spring. Very, very good program. Before and after the game, I had nothing but positive interactions with the coaching staff. In fact, after the spring season ended, I had the 3rd base coach in a travel ball game, and he immediately recognized me and greeted me warmly. We chatted for much of the game as he was coaching first (which, yes, is generally not great idea, and I do not recommend this be emulated). As far as I could tell, that coaching staff liked me quite a bit, they told me on multiple occasions that I had done a good job, and I liked them as well. But, in nearly every game with that team, I would have some sort of confrontation with them. 

    And to echo what many others have said, it's much better to be respected than liked.

    • Like 3
  6. Maven already said this, but I think it bears repeating (and emphasizing). Don't run over to a coach, especially not an AC, and especially not to discipline (which is what a warning is). 

    Now of course, a manager coming out when he is permitted to is a different story. If he's calm as he comes out, I have no problem with you meeting him half way, but you should NOT go the whole distance. Additionally, there are ways to have conversations with coaches that don't make you look, like Maven said, like their lapdog. Call them over and pull out your lineup card, or catch them in-between innings as they are walking past you. Just don't go to them.

    These situations should have been handled from the spot you were when they occured. "C'mon, Blue! That's a balk right there! All day! Let's go". Depending on the temperature of the game, I might respond something like "I don't have a balk/That's not a balk" (depending on if I know what they want to be balked) or "Hey! None of that." Regardless, that's definitely an inappropriate comment for a base coach to make, so If they come back with something, I'm shutting it down for sure (but again, the temperature of the game determines the exact response). Importantly though, I didn't move. The coach was in the wrong, so I don't care if everyone hears the exchange, he was the aggressor.

    • Like 5
  7. I'm gonna take a slightly different approach because most of the most important stuff has been said already.

    This is your first game. Understand that and don't hold yourself to a super high standard. It can be really hard to come to terms with this, but your first game, heck, your first year plus, you probably won't be that good. It's not impossible, especially if you get in the book and learn your mechanics, just unlikely. I don't say this to try to discourage you. In fact, it's the exact opposite. The first two year is easily the hardest year for anyone that gets into officiating. The attrition rate in that time is astronomical. A large part of that is because there is no really good way too ease someone into officiating. So I'm encouraging and pleading with you: stick it out for the first year at least. Don't let a single bad game or flubbed calls (or a series of either!) knock you out.

    Now, I want to be very clear, even when you're starting out and you feel like a chicken running around with your head chopped off, it is still incredibly fun and rewarding, as long as you have a baseline understanding and you are constantly trying to get better. If you don't know the rules or the mechanics and a basic level, you will feel lost on the field. That's the worst feeling you can have. If you ever stop striving to get better, especially when you are just starting out, you will start to beat yourself up over the missed calls instead of using them as learning opportunities (which is what they should be) and you'll stop having fun. The worst thing you can do is stop having fun.

    So, in summary, get in the book, get out there, have fun, and realize you'll make mistakes. The good news is, you're on this site. That means you care and are trying to learn. It's an amazing resource. Use it, ask questions, read old threads, and have fun.

    Oh, yeah, and if everyone else hasn't beat it into your head yet, see everything you need to and slow down.

    • Like 4
  8. 2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

    If it makes you feel better, I will re-word my statement - I would DEDUCE that they are appealing the miss at third.

    If the runner is obviously standing on the base and has been there for several seconds the last thing I would conclude is they're "just trying to put him out"...except maybe at 8U...nor would I (normally - weird chain of events in this OP aside) conclude they were appealing that he left the base he's standing on early, or that he missed the base he's standing on.

    Usually (not always) someone is saying "appeal" just before or as they're doing the act, especially at the end of a play...they may not be saying "what" but it's usually pretty clear, in the moment, with or without the verbal declaration, that they're appealing SOMETHING.


    This is far different than an active play where the runner's off base and the defense is trying to beat the runner back to the base...and in that scenario, on a caught ball, it would usually be very apparent the defense is appealing "left early" rather than just trying to get the runner out...especially if the defense is clearly attempting to touch the base and not the runner.   And in that scenario, if they decided to touch the runner a second or two after I'd want them to explicitly say they're appealing the miss at third.

    But the standard is that the action must be an unmistakable act of appeal (in this case, of the runner missing 3rd). Yes, especially if I have deduced that the coach or player is especially baseball savvy, I may assume that they are appealing the miss of 3rd, but it's still definitely possible that it is something else, especially since 90+% of the time they would tag 3rd instead of the runner for this appeal. In addition, without there being a verbal appeal, I probably would not see this as an appeal at all! How often do you see the ball thrown into second (even if maybe it'd be quicker to throw it elsewhere) and then F4 or F6 tag the runner for no reason? 

    Regardless, what is the harm in asking what they are appealing? If they're appealing the thing you think they are, it doesn't matter whether you ask or not. If they're appealing something you DON'T think they're appealing, you've just saved yourself embarrassment, or potentially tipping off (or calling) an appeal that never happened. That's a LOT worse than taking the 2 seconds it takes to ask what they're appealing. I really see no risk with asking a clarifying question. In fact, I think it's your duty to do so.

    • Like 1
  9. 7 hours ago, eagle_12 said:

    The Smitty V2 Body flex are really nice and comparable to the Majestic.  The base standard shirt is not, and the jackets do leave room for improvement. 

    I wore the V2 Smitty's this summer for the league I worked, and while they were fine, I MUCH prefer the Majestics. While a vast improvement over the V1s (of which I only own one), the V2sstill aren't as light, they don't breath quite as well, and they wrinkle a little easier in my experience. If I didn't have Majestics I would think they're a great shirt... But I do have Majestics, so I only see them as a good shirt.

    As to the pants, I do like the Smitty Poly Spandex pants, but I really don't have experience with other pants. My only real complaint is that they often feel a little too baggy, which is very noticable on windy days. Definitely go with the standard waist band though. Far prefer to the expanders.

    • Like 3
  10. The way it's taught at pro school is to 

    1) point to the right, snapping the hand from chest in a sideways motion (almost like a half safe) 

    2) Verbalize "no catch"

    3) Take a step or two to your right, so you can see a potential quick tag by the catcher. 

    4) If the runner gets out of the immediate vicinity of the catcher (approximately the dirt circle, if you have one), step back to and straddle the line, while giving a safe mechanic.

    5) Help with pulled foot, swipe tag, and RLI as you would on a play on the infield. 

    If the ball gets past the catcher, you may have to modify positioning such as to not be in the throwing lane. This takes a little practice to get right, but if you nail it, it looks really good.




  11. On 6/18/2021 at 7:06 AM, noumpere said:

    You have fallen into the coach-speak "I am entitled to a warning so I get one free shot" trap.


    The warning has it's place; this was not it.

    I've had conversations with conference coordinators, really high level college umpires, and professional umpires that has made it clear that in college and professional baseball, they want warnings if at all possible. There is an informal list of automatics. If it is not one of those (even if it is similar to one of the automatics in nature) you need too warn first, or it will be frowned upon, or at least, not seen as well as it could be. 

  12. I've wondered on this before and have never been given a good reason why we verbalize all out calls at first, but I have been told that we do verbalize all out calls at first. I've gotten to the point that I just shrug my shoulders and do it because that's what's expected, and it doesn't hurt my ability to umpire well.

  13. 54 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

    From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 137):

    If a batted or thrown ball strikes a bird in flight or other animal on the playing field, consider the ball alive and in play the same as if it had not touched the bird or animal. If a pitched ball strikes a bird in flight or other animal on the playing field the pitch is nullified and play shall be resumed with the previous count.

    Wait, so line drive down the line, hits a bird in flight over fair territory, then falls foul because of that, foul ball?

  14. 6 hours ago, noumpere said:

    Why delay the inevitable?

    A coach *ordering* an umpire to do something, especially something the umpire doesn't need to do, is almost (<--- added to avoid the absolute) always going to be an ejection.

    Because on an ejection report, you are almost (added for the same reason you did) always protected if you warn first. 

  15. I'm honestly kinda surprised with how many people are saying they'd jump straight to ejection. Like, yeah, this is obviously unacceptable, but I fail to see how it warrants an ejection without a warning. The conversation is absolutely over, and the coach is getting a stern warning, but I just don't see the reason for the ejection. That being said, this feels like a situation where an ejection is probably going to happen, and it time might be counted in seconds rather than minutes.

  16. 1 hour ago, aaluck said:

    Its always foul.  You cannot un-ring that bell. Once the ball is called foul, regardless of where it is on or off the field it is foul.

    A ball that leaves the field (potential homerun) is the exception. NCAA may have a provision for changing a foul ball in the outfield to a fair ball, but I can't remember.

  17. 3 hours ago, SH0102 said:

    Dawg....I so wish this was true...I did a youth game a couple weeks ago (14 or 15u...can't recall) that I nailed everything...I mean everything.  I know I did not miss a call on the bases, my strike zone was consistent and big enough for that age that it kept the game moving without calling anything egregious, and I had to apply about 6 rules that the general populace knows nothing about.  Was one of those days where I felt good about myself because all of my studying of the rule book came through for me.

    But because I was applying rules that the general person doesn't fully grasp, that made me a big a-hole in their eyes, and I was being screamed at for "making **** up" and "not knowing the rules".  Mind you, some of these same fans that told me I don't know the rules were yelling for infield fly on a pop up with R1 only, but I digress.

    The truth of the matter is, the only way to be "liked" by a team is for every call to go in their favor.  And since that isn't happening, you might as well just leave the field knowing you called a good game and not worry or care about what the fans think.

    I could be in a stadium with 999 fans, 1 partner on the field, and 1 evaluator in the stands.  If my partner and evaluator say I did a nice job, I could care less what the 999 think.  Because fans literally is short for "fanatics", they are biased towards their team, and they know 5% of the rules on average.

    Luckily, this seems to be somewhat assuaged as you work higher levels of ball. Not always, but often. 

    There's a Juco coach in a a conference I work who has a bit of a reputation (though it seems, and I've been told, he's cooled off a bit in the last couple years). First time I had him, I was on the dish at his place. His team is losing by a couple runs going into the bottom of the 9th. To keep a long story short (and hopefully unidentifiable), he came out, I thought there was a very non zero chance I might have to eject him, but instead he came out to compliment me and tell me he had texted my assignor telling him I'd done a good job. I was caught off guard, but it really changed how I see real coaches. Since then, I've had a number of college/summer ball coaches compliment the crew in games they've lost, and it really means a lot. 

    • Like 1
  18. That's a bit of CYA I'd say. Dude cones off and they tag him, now Cora comes out and says "you were making an out signal towards him! Of course he thought he's out!". If you tell him to stay there and he then steps off, that's on him. It's a confusing situation. This was a part of Tumpane (who like... Wow, what an umpire. This at was awesome) untangling the situation for all involved

    • Like 1
  19. 3 hours ago, catsbackr said:

    Unless you end a statement to a coach with, "That's your warning", then it's not a warning.  The only version of a warning is "That's your warning."  Period.

    This is not true in pro ball, and there may be limited scenarios outside of pro ball using OBR where that's the case. In fact, if you said "this is your warning" in pro ball or at school, is bet it wouldn't go well. If you're calling FED or NCAA (or youth ball using OBR) though, this is certainly true. 

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