refump10

So they reiterate a rule that most (all) of the country has decided is unenforceable because it is not realistic and is thus ignored. 
 

Just adopt the NCAA rule already!  It works to speed up games (which is the point) and is well within the abilities of teams to comply. 

On 3/20/2023 at 9:37 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

What has the reaction been? Obviously, you have the coaches on board with this so, that end is likely ok...how are the players adjusting to it?

~Dawg

Also need to add: the kids are aware of it. I’ve only had three high school games so far, but the kids were well aware of it. Any time I’ve had to yell out to prompt everybody to get going, I’ve had a kid ask, “Is this the clock thing?”  Yes it is

Very early in the process, but so far the response has been good.  We got very proactive and set out a written protocol for both between innings and the 20-second clock, and had decent communication with our coaches about our intentions (we even hosted a Zoom meeting to discuss with the coaches).  
 

We have tracked our game times for the first week and a half and have seen some dramatic results.  Obviously, there are going to be some games that are going to run long due to many runs scored, pitchers who can’t find the plate, etc.   But the PACE of play is greatly improved. 
 

It’s early and we fully expect a couple Sh!tshows, but so far so good
 

On 3/12/2023 at 3:13 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

FED Rule 6-2, ART. 2, c.- ...failing to pitch or make or attempt a play, including a legal feint, within 20 seconds after he has received the ball. PENALTY: The batter shall be awarded one ball.

From the "People Say Unusual Things On The Internet" file...

I saw what I would presume was an umpire commenting on a YouTube video regarding MLB's new pitch clock rules. The user stated their association has their base umpires equipped with stopwatches to assist with the enforcement of the above rule for FED games. Brothers, can anyone out there confirm they are using a stopwatch in FED games? If so, how long have you been doing so and how is it working?

~Dawg 

II can confirm there are parts or Kentucky that are enforcing it.  We are doing it in collaboration with our coaches in the interest  of keeping games moving both between innings and with the “pitch clock”

On 3/17/2023 at 9:56 PM, JHumbert15 said:

I agree with the above about more strikes = better baseball.

I’ve had this discussion with others before, and here’s what I’ll tell you. Some may disagree with this, and some may feel the need to bash me for it. I don’t care. 
 

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see mention of what your zone was. 

Here’s mine:

(Spoiler, it’s the same from 16u-D2 college)

High/low is pretty much static. Bottom of the knee and I do my best to get the high “midpoint” strike. I’ll admit that’s very hard when D2 guys are throwing 90-94. That’s the pitch I have to work on.

In/Outside. At high school level *call the channel*. Please. I (and 95%+ of umpires) call the channel in D2 baseball. If you don’t, I’m telling you I think you should- get more strikes. And guess what? Coaches actually want us to call that pitch. “Lower level” D1 coaches (MAC) for example, want the channel called. If it’s in the channel, and doesn’t touch the chalk, and the catcher receives it well, call it. I understand there are variables here (namely the catcher). But, if we call the channel in D2 when a kid is dotting up, why don’t people call that in high school? I hate when guys say “tighten up the corners for high school varsity.” Why? I’m getting pitchers further out at higher levels. People will complain about having a shoe box for a zone, but if you open up to call the channel guys will swing the bat and you won’t hear it. I’m not telling you to go get that pitch when he’s set up middle or in and the dude throws one 1.5 balls of the plate. Obviously, you can’t get that pitch. I would argue in high school you might be able to. It depends. College? No. 
 

High school baseball is *not* the place where I try to show everyone what my interpretation of the strike zone is. This may shock some people, but when people talk about “tightening it up” as the season goes on, I disagree. Even if I were working the state championship for HS and it’s the D1 champ game- call the channel. This goes back to my point above about what is called in college. I’m there to get strikes. If they throw strikes, call it. On that note, remember -> everything is a strike. Let the pitch convince you it’s a ball, not that it’s a strike. When it leaves his hand it’s a strike until it’s not. Every time. You’ll call more strikes, hear less bickering about how tight you are, kids will swing, it’ll be better baseball, and it’ll be more fun. 
 

You say this:

I think you’re overthinking it. Picking a spot to “start the zone” could be a recipe for disaster. Call the channel at every level. Don’t miss the bottom of the knee. Try to work and get that high strike. Nobody likes it. I don’t. Especially when someone throws 88+. But guess what? If you consistently call it, people will get used to it. (And by the book, it’s a strike). It’s a pitch NCAA wants us to work on and I’ll be the first to admit it’s hard. But if someone gets it at college, get in in high school.

 

 

 

This.  More strikes = better baseball. (Within reason). The game is better when strikes are called. 

Justin,

I sent you a PM. Got some stuff that might help

Okay thanks. Trying to put together some training materials for my group

Looking for a little clarification in regards to FED rules about a fielder blocking a base without the ball. Specifically, is there guidance about how much of the base can be blocked by a fielder that is permissible?  I'm thinking about a standard pickoff at first base where F3 has his foot on the side of the bag facing second base.  Thanks.

Fed Rule 2-24-4:

A tag out is the put out of a runner, including the batter-runner, who is not in contact with his base when touched with a live ball, or with the glove or hand when the live ball is held securely therein by a fielder.  The ball is not considered as having been securely held if it is juggled or dropped after the touching, unless the runner deliberately knocks the ball from the hand of the fielder (8-4-2h2)

Someone (Maven, you come to mind with your rules mastery) can correct me if I'm wrong, but I equate the action of a tag with the action of a catch.  That is, a player has to demonstrate secure possession of the ball throughout the "continuing action" of the play as demonstrated by control of one's body and/or voluntary release of the baseball.  I distinctly remember a video clip from the CWS a couple years ago where F1 fielded a bouncer close to the first base line and dived to tag the batter-runner and lost control of the ball when he contacted the ground (well after the tag was made).  

The umpire was miked and you could hear him explain to the coach that the pitcher had to demonstrate "control of his body" throughout the play. 

Thanks Maven.  I got a little "tunnel vision" and didn't expand my thinking to the hindrance part of the equation.  This is another case where I wish FED would clean up the rule and conform with OBR (and college) and just get rid of the "thrown" and "throw" words.  Deleting those two words would fix it.

I was reading the other thread about the RLI called in a Little League game.  The discussion went briefly to the HS interpretation of the ruling.  I thought I would move over to the High School section to continue that part of the discussion to avoid high jacking the other thread. There was a quotation in one of the posts that quoted and interp from 2004:

SITUATION 19: B1 bunts and F2 fields the ball in fair territory in front of home plate. B1 is running in foul territory when F2, in fair territory, throws errantly and hits B1 in the back. B1 continues running and touches first base. RULING: The play stands. F2 made an errant throw. Although B1 was not in the running lane, his position did not interfere with F2’s throw. (8-4-1g Exception)"

My confusion over this interpretation is that I thought in FED that quality of throw is not a factor when determining RLI.  I also note that in the 2017 Rule Book, there is no exception listed to 8-4-1g.  I think this ruling should correct, but I'm having a hard time seeing how this ruling conforms with the rule as written.

Thoughts?

In college ball, that is correct. There is no such arrangement for high school, although I think a couple of states have adopted the college rule. There is no such provision in pro ball

I had this pop up yesterday with a little twist.  Pitch up and in hits the batter's hand.  I award him the base and DHC comes out and asks where this pitch hit him.

"It hit his hand"

"But the hand's part of the bat!"

"No Joe, that's not correct."

It went back and forth like this for a bit and finally Joe walked back to the dugout convinced I didn't know the rule.   Whatever, he went back to the dugout and life went on.  His team got blasted 20-1.

I saw him a couple of years ago when he was a sophomore. Very smooth, deceptively fast cause he doesn't appear to be expending any effort, but man he covers some ground. 

Louisville might have a hard time getting him on campus in the fall. Somebody told me that he is being projected as a top ten pick in the draft. Don't know if that's true, but that would mean a lot of money for him when he signs a contract.  

Sorry to answer my own question, but I think I found the answer to my question. Case Book 3.1.1 Situation N. Without regurgitating the whole thing, this is considered a projected substitution.  A courtesy runner is only allowed for either the pitcher or catcher on defense before coming to bat, since projected substitutions are not allowed.

F1 #6 is replaced in the bottom of the fourth by new F1 #26.  In top of 7th, #6 reenters as a pinch hitter for #26 and singles.  HC wants to use a courtesy runner for #6, since he hit for the pitcher.  Is this legal?  Couldn't find anywhere in the rule book or case book addressing this situation.  Thanks for the help.

Just finished the test last night.  Followed my normal practice of cracking open a beer when reading the first question. Three beers and about an hour later, it's all done!  I have found a little lubrication is just the thing to get through it

Been freezing my butt off the past several weeks.  Tonight has plate with a start time of 5:30 and first pitch temp of 41.  Decent pace of game; went 1:50.  Wore UA Cold Gear LS, topped by full turtleneck and then a sweatshirt.  CP went over that, and Smitty version of Thermabase topping it off.   Was glad to have it when temps were 37 at end with a 10 mph breeze.  I know a lot of you guys up north will be laughing at me, but I was glad to have all that on. 

I don't like wearing the Thermabase on the plate, (it's really bulky, and sometimes my TG catches somewhere)  but I absolutely hate being cold!

Thanks Jim.. I read right over that section three times while looking for it.

What Greyhound said.  I can only think of one instance where an award will be restricted is when with R1, B2 hits safely to RF.  F9 attempts to throw out B2 after he rounds the bag, and his throw goes into the dugout.  For some reason R1 has not made it to second yet at the time of the throw.  The award would be to give R1 third base and B2 would be to second. I'm trying to find a rule and/or case book reference backing this up, but haven't found it yet. Maybe some other member can help me out.

Quote

The "automatic" appeal to which you are referring pre-dates me, but my understanding is ... it was changed from a FED mandate to a State-Adopted mandate, and only the state of South Carolina was still using it when last I saw any discussion about it.  Clear example of FED realizing their folly in creating the rule in the first place.

Interesting. I remember it from the 80's.  I didn't like it then.  I felt like if the defense didn't have to go through the appeal process, at least they should have to pay attention enough to ask for it.

I don't have a problem with the FED dead ball appeal, in fact I like it.  It can simplify things if coaches have knowledge of it. That said, many coaches don't know how to appeal a missed base. IIRC, there was once an "automatic" appeal in FED, in which if an umpire observed a missed base, he called time at the end of playing action and simply declared the offending runner out.  Maybe somebody can help me out with that; it was a long time ago and I didn't do much FED back then. I don't think that's right, but I do like the verbal appeal.

Thanks for the heads-up.  Went back in to work on the test and several answers are now wrong due to the options being reshuffled.   Looks like I'm going to have to go through the whole thing question by question to make sure I don't miss any because of this glitch.  (Cant afford to miss any more than I would have had without tech issues

Quote

4 hours ago, MadMax said:

Wait. Wait wait wait waaaaaiiiiiiit. You surely should have gotten involved, because – where did BR end up?

If PU truly "has nothing", and that's a wild pitch, then BR should be back in the box, facing a (now) 2-2 count! You should, at the very least, be stepping in to correct that. This then seems like the opportune time to conference with partner and go over what happened. If he's sticking to wild pitch, then BR back in the box; if you're certain you've got a HBP, then say so and the run comes off the board, R2 back to 2B, and B to 1B to become R1.

Any other outcome is a misapplication of the rules. You are an umpiring team, by all means coordinate and act like one. No umpire is omnipotent, nor is any umpire – or man for that matter – an island.

... except when working 9U Solo. You're truly on your own.

PU did bring the batter back.  I'll give him credit for keeping up with all that.  I was kinda hoping he would forget and then I could get together with him to discuss the count.  And also offer my thoughts on the pitch hitting the batter.  But he never did ask for help and the defensive coaches let it go.

I had a similar sit happen to me last week.  R2, I'm in C.1-2 count.  Pitch is a curve that hits the back foot of a left-handed batter and careens off toward the screen near the 3B dugout. BR takes off for 1B indicating he got hit.  After some hesitation R2 takes off and eventually scores, and  BR ends up at 2B.  All while my partner has nothing. The defensive coaches make a statement to my partner that there was a HBP.  I kept waiting for him to come to me, but crickets.  (I will mention that the game was long-decided at this point and we are just trying to get to the mercy rule in the next inning and that the defensive team was just as eager to get out of it as the rest of us)

I'm sure had the game been close, we would have had a different experience.  My partner that day is a good umpire, and we talked about after the game. I apologized to him for not giving help, and he said he wished he'd come to me for help.  Luckily, it didn't cost anybody anything, but I'm still kicking myself for not getting involved.  Thanks James for the quote from the Umpire Bible.