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Senor Azul

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Everything posted by Senor Azul

  1. Very good, Mr. eagle_12. You are right, of course, because the NCAA rule was changed in the 2017-2018 cycle (I think) to match the pro rule and the text you cited is found in the current rule 5-8d.
  2. OBR has a rule that covers a game-winning base on balls [Little League rule 4.09(b)]. 2019 OBR rule 5.08(b) (b) When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base. For FED it is spelled out in its rule 9-1-1 Note 2. 2. When the winning run is scored in the last half inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases loaded which forces the runner on third base to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game over until all runners have advanced to the next base. The NCAA rules the same as FED.
  3. If that is indeed a pop-up slide, then it is an automatic double play by rule-- 2019 NFHS rule 2 SECTION 32 SLIDE ART. 2 . . . A slide is illegal if: a. the runner uses a rolling, cross-body or pop-up slide into the fielder, or 8.4.2 Situation O: R1. B2 hits a one-hopper to F5 who throws to F4 at second base for the force out of R1. R1 slides illegally into second base. RULING: R1 is out, as well as B2, because of R1’s interference (illegal slide on force play). The ball is dead immediately and runners return to their bases occupied at the time of the pitch and no runs can score. 8.4.2 Situation P: R3, R1 with no outs. B3 hits a ground ball to F4 who throws to F6 to force R1. R1 slides illegally, contacts F6 and interference is called by the umpire. RULING: R1 is out. B3 is out, and R3 is returned to third.
  4. The intent of the force-play slide rule is to ensure the safety of all players—not just the defensive player but the offensive player as well. And we seem to be forgetting an important element of the rule so here is the actual rule— 2019 NFHS rule 8-4-2b ART. 2 . . . Any runner is out when he: b. does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases; or 1. A runner may slide in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Someone near and dear to you, Mr. noumpere, once posted the following— Instead, you want the "illegally alters the action of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play" from 8-4-2b. A retired runner "near" 2B must either get down or veer off: anything else would count as illegally altering the actions of the fielder and warrant calling the BR out for R1's FPSR violation. The "alteration" at issue is forcing the fielder to move in order to "throw around" R1. A runner who goes in standing up is (usually intentionally) trying to hinder the backend of the double play in that fashion, and it's illegal by 8-4-2b.
  5. 2019 NFHS Case Book Play 3.2.2 Situation A: B1 hits a home run out of the park and, while rounding third, trips over the base. The third-base coach helps B1 to his feet. RULING: The ball is dead and, since B1 is awarded four bases for the home run, he is allowed to score with this type of assistance by the third-base coach.
  6. From the 2016 BRD (section 310, p. 207): Interference By: Coach: Assists Runner During: Dead Ball OBR: No provision. Treat as in NCAA. NCAA: Official Interpretation: Paronto: There is no coach’s interference during a dead ball unless the coach’s actions provide an advantage for the offensive team. (e-mail to Childress, 12/21/11) FED: Contact, even physical assistance, by a coach with a home run hitter who is advancing on a four-base award is legal. (See case play 3.2.2A) Play: R1 tries for third on B1’s single, but F9’s throw goes dead. R1 rounds the bag (he will be awarded home) but does not touch it. The coach grabs R1 by the arm and yells: “Go back and touch third.” Ruling: At all levels, there is no penalty.
  7. From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.50, p. 67): When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left too soon after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base… But here is the key to understanding this concept for OBR. “The next base or base beyond in this section refers to the position of the runner at the time the ball went out of play.” So, in the OP, the runner is between second and third base when the ball goes out of play due to the umpire’s call of time for the obstruction. The runner cannot legally proceed directly to third base. He can legally (and must before he advances to third on the award) return to first base to correct his base running error. Of course, he must then retouch second base on his way to third base to complete the award. You are right, Mr. Tborze, FED rules differently. When the runner is on or beyond the next base when the ball goes out of play he cannot legally return (see rules 5-2-2b-1 and 8-4-2q). 2010 Situation 11: R3 and R1 with one out. B4 hits a sinking line drive to center field. R3 tags properly and goes home, while R1 is off with the hit. F8 makes a great catch. R1 is beyond second base as F8 throws back to first in an attempt to double up R1. The ball goes into the dugout with R1 still between second base and third base. R1 touches second base and goes back to touch first base. RULING: The ball is dead and R3’s run will count. R1 will be awarded two bases from the base he had at the time of the pitch (first base), so he will be awarded third base. If the defense properly appeals R1 being beyond second base at the time the ball went dead, R1 will be declared out. R3’s run would still count. (5-1-1g-3, 8-2-5, 8-2-6d-1, 8-4-2q)
  8. Gil Imber of Close Call Sports has already posted an analysis of Phil Cuzzi’s call. Before I tell you about his explanation let me remind you of the following-- The interpretation of fair ball was changed in 2018 to the following (this is taken from the 2018 MiLBUM)— When in contact with the ground, a ball must be in contact with fair territory and not merely over fair territory in order to be adjudged to be fair. In Gil’s analysis he states that there has been an addition made to that interpretation. “Sidebar: Had this been a first contact by the batted ball in the outfield, it would need to make contact with the left/right field foul line or within those lines to be deemed fair [a recent MLB Umpire Manual interpretation add-on regarding batted balls in the outfield clarifies this to be the case for outfield hits, but not for infield hits]).” Gil goes on to explain that the current definition in the rule book appendix is “A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that...while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player" so if we put together these two facts it would explain why umpire Phil Cuzzi called fair what appeared to us as a foul ball.
  9. 2019 LL Rules Instruction Manual (rule 2) OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball, impedes the progress of any runner. A fake tag is considered obstruction. (NOTE: Obstruction shall be called on a defensive player who blocks off a base, base line, or home plate from a base runner while not in possession of the ball). INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS: ➔ It is quite simple now for the umpires to rule on obstruction…if the defense does not have the ball and impedes the progress of any runner it shall be called obstruction. It makes no difference if the defense is fielding a thrown ball or waiting for the ball, if the defensive player does not have the ball in his/her possession it is obstruction if they impede the progress of any runner. ➔ Runners are entitled to the entire base/plate without having to alter their path or slide to achieve the base or plate. If a fielder blocks ANY PART of the base or plate without possession of the ball and the runner is hindered, forced to slide or alter his/her path because of the fielder’s position, the runner has been obstructed. ➔ Most actions related to obstruction concern who has the right-of-way. The defense has the right to the baseline on a batted ball or when he/she already has the ball in his/her possession. The offense has the right to the baseline in all other occasions, including on a thrown ball.
  10. What we are talking about in this thread is a dead ball appeal. You acknowledged that fact in your first post when you cited rule 2a (actually rule 5-2-2a). The only way the umpire could have called an out in this scenario is to grant a dead ball appeal. I say the umpire mistakenly allowed the appeal too soon—he did not wait for the runner to complete his base running. Then Mr. noumpere offered case book play 8.2.2M as the closest case play to our discussion (without actually posting it). And I think the most important part of that play is the closing sentence—“R2 may legally return to touch home if he has not touched the steps of the dugout and if a subsequent runner has not yet scored.” I came along and actually posted his case play and referenced one I thought was even closer to our discussion (8.2.2C). I did not post that case play in its entirety because it is somewhat lengthy so I just posted what I thought was relevant. No matter since you seem to have not read the case play anyway. The case play I referred to you is about a dead ball appeal after the ball went out of play and I really only wanted you to read it for its final sentence—“The defense cannot appeal the missed base if the runner has initiated an attempt to return to the base or until all playing action is over.” Now it seems you object to the unread case play because you think there is a one-to-one correspondence between the numbering for case plays and rules. I absolutely do not agree with your assertion the controlling authority is rule 8-2-5. I say the applicable rule is 8-2-6c (the dead ball appeal rule).
  11. 2019 OBR rule 6.01(e) Spectator Interference When there is spectator interference with any thrown or batted ball, the ball shall be dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as in his opinion will nullify the act of interference. APPROVED RULING: If spectator interference clearly prevents a fielder from catching a fly ball, the umpire shall declare the batter out. Rule 6.01(e) Comment: There is a difference between a ball which has been thrown or batted into the stands, touching a spectator thereby being out of play even though it rebounds onto the field and a spectator going onto the field or reaching over, under or through a barrier and touching a ball in play or touching or otherwise interfering with a player. In the latter case it is clearly intentional and shall be dealt with as intentional interference as in Rule 6.01(d). Batter and runners shall be placed where in the umpire’s judgment they would have been had the interference not occurred. No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator’s interference. EXAMPLE: Runner on third base, one out and a batter hits a fly ball deep to the outfield (fair or foul). Spectator clearly interferes with the outfielder attempting to catch the fly ball. Umpire calls the batter out for spectator interference. Ball is dead at the time of the call. Umpire decides that because of the distance the ball was hit, the runner on third base would have scored after the catch if the fielder had caught the ball which was interfered with, therefore, the runner is permitted to score. This might not be the case if such fly ball was interfered with a short distance from home plate.
  12. From the 2016 BRD (section 150, p. 114): For professional baseball (OBR)-- Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt: If a manager goes out during warm-ups to see a pitcher who was already listed in the lineup in a previous inning, that would be a trip. Play: After Home switches sides in the 3rd inning, Coach Home goes to the mound, standing with his pitcher Bubba while he warms up. Bubba also pitched the 2nd inning. Ruling: In FED/NCAA, that is not a conference. In OBR, it is a trip to the mound. From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 76): …Managers or coaches will be charged with a mound visit if they visit the mound during an inning break or after a new pitcher enters the game…
  13. From the 2016 Baseball Rule Differences by Carl Childress (section 350, p. 234): Official Interpretation: Hopkins: On a force play a runner hit by a throw between bases is NOT guilty of interference if he did not slide when he is in the baseline and “not even halfway to second: The runner cannot be expected to slide at that point in the base path.” (Hopkins, website 2007 #3) Note from the BRD: This official interpretation seems to indicate that a runner who is more than halfway had better hit the dirt. 2007 NFHS Baseball Interpretations SITUATION 3: With no outs and R1 on first base, B2 hits a hard ground ball to F6. F6 fields the ball and steps on second base and then throws to first base in an attempt to double up B2. R1 is running standing up in a straight line to second and is hit by F6's throw. R1 was not even half way to second base and did not intentionally interfere with the throw. The defensive coach states that B2 should also be out since R1 violated the force-play slide rule. RULING: This is not a violation of the force play slide rule. R1 cannot be expected to slide at that point in the base path. The play stands. R1 would be out only if he intentionally interfered. (8-4-2b penalty)
  14. In high school ball a dead ball appeal can be made with or without the ball. In the OP the ball was immediately dead when the pitch hit the batter. So I don’t see what difference it would make if the umpire picked up the current game ball and returned it to a player. In the scenario presented in the OP the umpire was wrong because he did not allow the base runner to complete his legal right to finish his base running obligations before allowing the dead ball appeal. may legally return to touch home if he has not touched the steps of the dugout and if a subsequent runner has not yet scored The defense cannot appeal the missed base if the runner has initiated an attempt to return to the base or until all playing action is over.
  15. OBR (Definitions) A BATTER is an offensive player who takes his position in the batter’s box. OBR Official Interpretation: 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual: A batter’s time at bat begins the moment the preceding batter is put out or becomes a runner. From the 2016 BRD (section 52, p. 56): Note 70: The definition affects balks at all levels. Question: Can a pitcher balk when a batter is not in the box? Answer: Yes. For NCAA their current rule 9-4a-5 actually states “…a player becomes the batter as soon as the previous batter reaches base, or is put out. The new batter does not have to enter the batter’s box to be considered the batter.”
  16. Mr. aaluck, what I cited was case book play 8.2.2C—what you came back with was rule 8-2-2. Please read my post—I even used the words case book play in describing the citation. In addition I used the proper form for separating case book references with decimal points not hyphens.
  17. Mr. aaluck, the FED rule book does not differentiate between the causes of a dead ball situation—they are listed in rule 5 as co-equals. The ball does not have to physically be thrown into a dead ball area. I refer you to case book play 8.2.2C where it discusses a ball thrown out of play and the runner’s rights. 8.2.2 Situation C: RULING: …The defense cannot appeal the missed base if the runner has initiated an attempt to return to the base or until all playing action is over. Rule 2 SECTION 11 DEAD BALL The ball becomes dead when acts listed in 5-1 occur or play is suspended as in 5-2-1. See table in Rule 5. Rule 5 SECTION 1 DEAD BALL ART. 1 . . . Ball becomes dead immediately when: a. a pitch touches a batter or his clothing (8-1-1d), a runner (8-3-1a) 8.2.2 Situation M: With R2, B2 hits a grounder to left field. R2 touches third base but misses the plate in attempting to score. F7 having thrown home, F2 steps on the missed base to retire R2 and throws to F6 in an attempt to put out B2: (a) before R2 attempts to return home; or (b) after R2 attempts to return to touch home plate. RULING: (a) Upon proper defensive appeal, R2 would be ruled out. (b) Since R2 initiated action prior to the defense touching the plate, R2 must be tagged to record the out. R2 may legally return to touch home if he has not touched the steps of the dugout and if a subsequent runner has not yet scored.
  18. 2020 NFHS rule 5 SECTION 1 DEAD BALL ART. 1 . . . Ball becomes dead immediately when: h. the umpire handles a live ball or calls “Time” for inspecting the ball or for any other reason, including items in Section 2 or gives the “Do Not Pitch Signal” or inadvertently announces “Foul” on a ball that touches the ground; or 2004 NFHS Baseball Rule Interpretations SITUATION 10: With 1 out and R1 on first and a count of 2-1, B2 hits a bouncing ball along the first base foul line. U1 mistakenly declares “Foul!” as F1 picks up the ball in fair territory. RULING: The ball is dead immediately. R1 returns to first. B2 continues at bat with a count of 2-2. (5-1-1h) Also see current FED case book plays 5.1.1A, B, and C.
  19. 2019 LL Rules Instruction Manual (rule 2) OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball, impedes the progress of any runner. A fake tag is considered obstruction. (NOTE: Obstruction shall be called on a defensive player who blocks off a base, base line, or home plate from a base runner while not in possession of the ball). INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS: ➔ It is quite simple now for the umpires to rule on obstruction…if the defense does not have the ball and impedes the progress of any runner it shall be called obstruction. It makes no difference if the defense is fielding a thrown ball or waiting for the ball, if the defensive player does not have the ball in his/her possession it is obstruction if they impede the progress of any runner. ➔ Runners are entitled to the entire base/plate without having to alter their path or slide to achieve the base or plate. If a fielder blocks ANY PART of the base or plate without possession of the ball and the runner is hindered, forced to slide or alter his/her path because of the fielder’s position, the runner has been obstructed. ➔ Most actions related to obstruction concern who has the right-of-way. The defense has the right to the baseline on a batted ball or when he/she already has the ball in his/her possession. The offense has the right to the baseline in all other occasions, including on a thrown ball.
  20. From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 162 with accompanying illustration on p. 163): If two runners are ever touching the same base, they occupy the same position and cannot be called out for passing. From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 46): A runner is considered to have passed a base if he has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction to which he is advancing. The direction the runner is advancing determines the edges of the base when defining when a runner has passed a base.
  21. Senor Azul

    Baseball

    What is the mechanic on the initial 1B fly by? (I'd like to specifically know LL-) I made a cursory check of the rule changes for 2019-2021 and found nothing relevant had changed. From the 2019 LL Rules Instruction Manual rule 7.10 7.10 - Any runner shall be called out on appeal if – (b) with the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, the runner fails to touch each base in order before said runner, or a missed base, is tagged; INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS: ➔ A common play that confuses many is when a throw is made to first base to retire a batter-runner that misses first. If the ball arrives after the batter-runner has missed first and advanced past first. This is now an appeal play, since the runner is considered as having touched a base when they move past a base until such time he/she is appealed.
  22. 2020 NFHS rule 1-1 ART. 4 . . . At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground. PENALTY: Illegal pitch. (2-18) Also see current FED case book play 1.1.4 SITUATION.
  23. From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 102): It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with his non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base.
  24. Senor Azul

    Joint tape.

    The OP still has not told us which code was used for his daughter’s softball game—just the age group. There are several softball organizations with their own set of rules. Apparently, high school rules leave it up to umpire judgment to decide whether a brightly colored tape is distracting or not. But there are groups including the NCAA and USSSA that try to give some guidance by adding the word neutral to their rule-- 2020-2021 NCAA softball rule 10.13.4 The pitcher shall not wear any item on the pitching fingers, hand, wrist, forearm or thighs that an umpire considers distracting. This includes a batting glove, sweatband and loose lacing on a glove, or ball-colored logos. Exception: The pitcher’s fingers, hand, wrist, forearm or elbow may be taped for injury, providing such tape is a neutral color. 2020 USSSA softball rule 6-1-I-2. The pitcher’s fingers, hand, wrist, forearm or elbow may be taped for injury, providing such tape is a neutral color.
  25. Here’s the official interpretation that can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 290, p. 190): OBR Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt: After ball four, a batter becomes a runner. Since the ball is not batted, any hindrance that occurs on the catcher or the catcher’s throw must be intentional for interference to be called. For the FED the BRD states that there is no provision and to treat it as in OBR.
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