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Senor Azul

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Everything posted by Senor Azul

  1. What exactly did the batter do for you to get BI, Mr. NavyBlue? I ask because FED actually has some guidelines for judging batter's interference during a steal of third: 2023 NFHS case book play 7.3.5 Situation E: With less than two outs, R2 on second and B2 at the plate, R2 attempts to steal third. In the process, B2, who bats right-handed, after swinging or not swinging at the pitch (a) makes no attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third or (b) is unable to make an attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third. As a result, F2 cannot make a play on the runner. Is B2 out, and must R2 return to second? Ruling: B2 is not guilty of interference in (a) or (b). B2 is entitled to a position in the batter's box and is not subject to being penalized for interference unless B2 moves or re-establishes a position after F2 has received the pitch, which then prevents F2 from attempting to play on a runner. Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference.
  2. Mr. JMGotts, the text shown in the video you posted is taken from the Major League Baseball Umpire Manual (MLBUM). It is one example of 14 obstruction and interference plays. The exact same play can be found in the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (MiLBUM): Play 1: Runner on first base; batter-runner gets into a rundown between home and first. Can obstruction be called going back to home? Ruling 1: No, unless the obstruction is intentional. NOTE: In situations where the batter-runner gets into a rundown between first and home, if the batter-runner retreats and reaches home plate, he shall be declared out. For FED, there is a current case play that tells us the same thing: 8.1.1 Situation A The NCAA actually covers this in its rule 7-11p Note 3.
  3. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.2, p. 52): ...When holding a runner on at first or third base, a fielder sometimes positions one foot in foul territory. Though no penalty is specified in the Official Baseball Rules, the umpire shall instruct the fielder to position both feet in fair territory if brought to his attention. From that point in the game, strict enforcement shall apply for both teams...
  4. From the 2023 NFHS rule book rule 3-1-1: ...Projected substitutions are not allowed... You may find these case plays helpful: 3.1.1 Situation E 3.1.2 Situation C
  5. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.41, p. 69): The exception to Rule 5.09(b)(4) prohibits the batter-runner from being tagged out for overrunning or oversliding first base if he immediately returns to the base. However, once the batter-runner returns to first base safely after overrunning/oversliding the base, he is no longer protected from being tagged out if he subsequently loses contact with the base.
  6. From the 2016 BRD (section 541, p. 353): Note 505: You must understand, though, that reversing a call from "fair" to "foul" causes no rules problem. You'll face an argument, but the changed call will not affect the outcome of the play. That is true whether fielders or runners reacted to an initial "point" toward fair territory. If the ball is subsequently ruled foul, simply order the batter back to the box--and any runners back to bases occupied TOP...
  7. The first written baseball rules are commonly called the Knickerbocker rules. Originally the way any runner was put out was to be in possession of the ball and step on the base the runner was advancing to. In 1848 the rule was changed to just apply that method to first base. I believe the definition of a force play came along in the 1860s. So retiring the batter-runner at first base by just stepping on the base has never been considered a force out.
  8. Deleted--somehow was duplicated.
  9. No, first base is not a force out base. It doesn't meet the definition so a force cannot be reestablished--in addition, a batter-runner is never considered to occupy home plate. We had a similar discussion a long time ago and to be honest I was shouted down then. The consensus then was the same as it appears to be now that the runner can be put out simply by stepping on first. Not a whole lot is written about this kind of play but I did post the following in the old thread: 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 47): A batter-runner who advances to first base and then retreats to the home plate side of first base can be tagged out while off the base. We already have a rule in place--if a runner attains a base and chooses to leave the safety of the base he is then in jeopardy of being tagged out.
  10. Item B is covered in rule 4-1-3 and 4-4-1f Note 1: ...Each team's lineup card shall list a minimum of nine players to start the game... Item C is covered in rule 4-1-3b and its following Penalty: Please note that rule 4-1's header reads: Starting a Game
  11. It has happened a few times at Wrigley Field when one ball went in and two popped out. It has also been rumored that players have stashed an extra ball in the ivy for emergency use.
  12. I remember a discussion we had about a lodged batted ball in a 2019 NLDS game. The ball was never out of sight and it was easily reachable for the fielder. The batter finished with a triple but it was decided after the play that the ball was lodged and sent the batter-runner back to second base. The defense gained an advantage but that is not a factor in the decision. Mr. maven, how do you know that the ball that bounced out of the ivy was the actual game ball that entered the ivy a split second earlier?
  13. The FED definition of the term "lodged" was added to rule 2-4 as 2-4-4 in 2023. And it was fairly recently that they changed their interpretation of a ball being lodged in a glove remaining live--I think it was in 2019. None of my rules manuals say anything about the lodged-ball rule is designed to protect the defense. So could you please provide a citation, Mr. maven. I always thought it was a penalty for the defense because they let the ball go out of play. Getting back to the new definition of "lodged", the part right after the text you cited as evidence the pitch in the OP wasn't really lodged seems to apply. The ball didn't fall or roll immediately. Even though the catcher was able to retrieve the ball rather quickly, it was by definition lodged.
  14. Here's a relevant rule to start things-- FED rule 2-4-2: ...The batter must go immediately to first base before time-out is called. Also see case play 2.4.2 SITUATION.
  15. A careful reading of FED rule 6-2-4b tells us that all that is required by rule on a feint is the step toward the base. The official interpretation from FED rules interpreter B. Elliot Hopkins does not change the definition of "feint" found in rule 2-28-5. You are misconstruing the meaning. Here's how it should be construed-- A feint is a movement... which simulates the start of a pitch or (the start of a) throw to a base It's the difference between the meaning of the two conjunctions--"and" "or"
  16. From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules Interpretation Manual (p. 105): "Once a pitcher steps towards second base, he has fulfilled all of his requirements as a pitcher." From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.25, p. 117): "...Note that a pitcher, when faking a throw to second base, is not required to have arm motion in the fake, although a legal step is required..."
  17. In addition to the 2002 online case play, there's an official interpretation that can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 399, p. 266): FED Official Interpretation: Hopkins: The feint does not require any arm motion. Arm motion is not required on a feint under OBR/NCAA rules also.
  18. Mr. pl8ump1012, I think you might be expecting a little too much. The individual state associations don't have lists of what rules are adopted. But there is text about each rule that has been adopted. As near as I can tell, the state of Illinois has adopted the following: a run rule (4-2-2) game ending procedures (4-2-4) speed up rules--courtesy runners pitch count rules (6-1-6) The IHSA website does not refer to actual rule numbers. It tells us that games are played under NFHS rules and then adds specific rules adopted. You also will find a list in the back of the NFHS baseball rules book under the heading of "Rules by State Association Adoption." There are 9 rules listed and at least one other that was inadvertently omitted (rule 6-1-6).
  19. Mr. thmetcalf, your analysis was spot on and you didn't miss anything. The umpire in your game not only misconstrued the rule but also the penalty. The penalty for violation of rule 3-3-1a does not go directly to ejection--there's a warning first. At the end of playing action, the umpire shall issue a warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be ejected... Also the following case book plays may be helpful: 3.3.1 situations A, B, C, D, E and F Celebrations at or near home plate during live ball have been a Point of Emphasis several times for the FED including 2008-2009 and 2015-2016.
  20. Also relevant to your debate: Current case plays 6.2.1 situations A, B 2008 online interpretations 6, 7, 8, 9
  21. Actually, Mr. johnnyg08, there are at least three "stupid" case plays that FED has given us on this topic. Two are found in the annual online interpretations 2014 Interpretations situations 3 and 4 2011 Interpretations situations 4 and 5 current case book play 8.4.2 Situation K Also see the following thread in the Rules forum FED Follow-Through Interference Question on page 8 of Rules
  22. I also found this nugget in the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual on page 77 in a section about appeals of a runner who misses a base. It's an example play EG: On a batted ball the batter-runner misses first and is safe at second on a close play. He requests and is granted time. He then goes back and touches first and returns to second: the runner is not allowed to return. He is out on appeal. I think this example has always been in the J/R but I no longer have my old editions of the manual. So perhaps someone who has a copy of an older version of the manual could check please.
  23. Mr. Velho, OBR 5.06c does address "thrown balls going out of play." It uses the term "overthrow." Here's the definition of the term provided by the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 36): Overthrow: A throw that enters dead ball territory or becomes lodged (other than in a glove, a player or coach's uniform, or the catcher's gear).
  24. Also see NFHS rule 8-3-3e, the baserunning awards rule bases as determined by the umpire, who shall also impose such penalties as in the umpire's judgment will nullify the act of spectator interference with any thrown or batted ball...
  25. From the 2013 Wendelstedt RIM (p. 141): Historical Reference: Until the merger of the AL and NL umpire staffs, this was one of the interpretations that were ruled differently. American League umpires would initially award the runner from his original base. The National League felt this would be coaching the defense, and would award from the runner's position on the field. If/when the runner returned, then his award would be from his original base. When interpretations were merged, the NL won out. When a runner, who has not legally tagged up from his original base after a fly ball is caught by an outfielder, is awarded bases on a ball thrown out of play, his award shall be from his position at the time of the throw. However, if the runner in violation returns to his original base after the ball is dead in order to tag-up properly, the umpire will then change his award from the time of the pitch.
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