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Senor Azul

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Posts posted by Senor Azul

  1. 2016 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations

    SITUATION 7: What is a head coach who is restricted to the bench allowed to do? RULING: Even though the head coach is restricted to the bench and may not occupy a coaching box, he is still the head coach. He still represents the team in communications with umpires and may address and coach base runners, the batter, defensive players and other coaches. He may hold team conferences at the dugout or bench area. He may leave the bench/dugout area to attend to a player who becomes ill or injured and may request to talk to an umpire concerning a rule or rule enforcement. However, he shall be ejected for any further misconduct. (3-2-1, 3-3-1f Penalty)

  2. From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 147):

    There are two types of steps that are legal—jab or stutter step and a jump step.

    Jab Step (of the pivot foot):  In cases of a right-handed pitcher throwing to first, or a left-handed pitcher throwing to third, or any pitcher throwing to second, a pitcher can take a jab or stutter step with his pivot foot before stepping to the base with his free foot. The motion of the stutter step and the resulting step of the free foot must be fluid and continuous; if the two motions are not continuous, there is a balk. Of course, the latter step must bring the free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot that is closer to the pickoff base.

    Jump Step:  A pitcher can, without balking, jump (i.e., both his feet go airborne simultaneously) before his non-pivot foot retouches the ground in a different position: this is a jump step. Again, the latter step must bring the free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot that is closer to the pickoff base.

    From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.26, p. 118):

    It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with his non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base.

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  3. Note that special penalties apply for batter INT with R3 stealing.

    Mr. maven, what special penalties are you referring to? Are you sure you are not thinking of the penalty for catcher’s interference on a steal attempt of home? Here is the penalty listed in the current OBR for batter’s interference and I wouldn’t classify the penalty as anything special or extraordinary (especially when compared to the double whammy penalty for catcher’s interference).

    EXCEPTION to Rules 6.03(a)(3) and (4): Batter is not out if any runner attempting to advance is put out, or if runner trying to score is called out for batter’s interference.

    Rules 6.03(a)(3) and (4) Comment: If the batter interferes with the catcher, the plate umpire shall call “interference.” The batter is out and the ball dead. No player may advance on such interference (offensive interference) and all runners must return to the last base that was, in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference.

    If, however, the catcher makes a play and the runner attempting to advance is put out, it is to be assumed there was no actual interference and that runner is out—not the batter. Any other runners on the base at the time may advance as the ruling is that there is no actual interference if a runner is retired. In that case play proceeds just as if no violation had been called.

    If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire’s judgment, unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the backswing, it shall be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead, however, and no runner shall advance on the play.

  4. A batter is not required to move. In fact, just the opposite is the case—a batter should not move or re-establish his position after the catcher receives the pitch. Here’s the current pro rule dealing with possible batter interference on a play at the plate—

    2021 6.03 Batter Illegal Action

    (a) A batter is out for illegal action when:

    (3) He interferes with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter’s box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher’s play at home base.

    And here is a high school case book play explaining that a batter is entitled to his position in the box and will not be penalized if he maintains his position and does not move after the catcher receives the pitch.

    2019 NFHS Case Book Play 7.3.5 Situation E:  With less than two outs, R2 and B2 at the plate, R2 attempts to steal third. In the process, B2, who bats right-handed, after swinging or not swinging at the pitch, (a) makes no attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third or (b) is unable to make an attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third. As a result, F2 cannot make a play on the runner. Is B2 out, and must R2 return to second? RULING:  B2 is not guilty of interference in (a) or (b). B2 is entitled to his position in the batter’s box and is not subject to being penalized for interference unless he moves or re-establishes his position after F2 has received the pitch, which then prevents F2 from attempting to play on a runner. Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference.

  5. More support from the LL RIM—first from the universal regulations in the front matter of the rule book and then from rule 9.02(a)--

    XIV – FIELD DECORUM

    (a) The actions on or off the field, of players, managers, coaches, umpires, and league officials must be above reproach. Any player, manager, coach, umpire, or league representative who is involved in a verbal or physical altercation, or an incident of unsportsmanlike conduct, at the game site or any other Little League activity including through online or social media, is subject to disciplinary action by the local league Board of Directors (or by the district, if the Senior League is administered as a district operation).

    9.02(a) INSTRUCTOR'S COMMENTS:

    ➔ Judgment calls cannot be argued. Umpires should not engage a manager in a debate nor go to their partner for help if a manager disputes a call that was based purely on the umpire’s judgment (e.g., throw beat the runner or not, tag beat the runner or not). It is proper for an umpire to ask his/her partner for help with regard to facts pertinent to the play (ball was on the ground, swipe tag made/not, pulled foot or not) if the calling umpire has doubt. The calling umpire may seek factual assistance from his/her partner whether the Manager asks or not.

  6. Not only should you follow the good advice given thus far, but you would also have rules support for an ejection. The following is taken from the 2020 Little League Rules Instruction Manual—rule 4.06(b) and its related Instructor’s Comments--

    4.06 - No manager, coach or player, shall at any time, whether from the bench or the playing field or elsewhere –

    (a)  use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire or spectators;

    INSTRUCTOR'S COMMENTS:

    ➔ Language from anyone that reflects badly upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire or spectators. Penalty is ejection.

  7. Mr. ArchAngel72, your instructors forgot to tell you one very important detail—the pitcher must have the ball before play can resume. From the 2020 Little League Rules Instruction Manual (rule 5.11)(emphasis added):

    5.11 – After the ball is dead, play shall be resumed when the pitcher takes position on the pitcher’s plate with a new ball, or the same ball in said pitcher’s possession and the plate umpire calls “Play.” The plate umpire shall call “Play” as soon as the pitcher takes position on the plate with possession of the ball.

    INSTRUCTOR COMMENT

    Play shall be resumed when: the pitcher takes a position on the pitcher’s plate with a new ball or the same ball in the pitcher’s possession and all fielders, other than the catcher are in Fair Territory. If a foul ball has occurred, all runners additionally must have returned to and re-touched their bases.

    ➔ In the special case when the ball must legally be put back into play at the end of a half inning or at the end of the game in order to appeal a base running violation (Rule 7.10), the only condition required is for the pitcher to take a position on the pitcher’s plate with a new ball or the same ball in said pitcher’s possession and have the Plate Umpire call “Play”. The Plate Umpire shall call “Play” as soon as the pitcher takes a position on the pitcher’s plate with the ball.

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  8. Here’s what the 2020 Little League Rules Instruction Manual says about the “Do Not Pitch” signal (rule 5.02)

    INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS

    ➔ The “No Pitch” signal (raising one hand up while facing the pitcher) is the same as calling “Time”. If an Umpire raises one hand up while facing the pitcher, he/she has called “Time Out”. The ball must be made “live” again after this “Time Out.” See Rule 5.11.

  9. Thank you for that clarification. As for the rule, 5.07(a)(1), there is no penalty listed. You are right that even when the sideways step was prohibited by rule (prior to 2007) there was no penalty for pitchers who did not comply and there still isn’t. So pro umpires don’t make an issue of it but at the levels I worked that used OBR I would mention it and try to get the amateur pitcher to follow the rule.

    Also it should be noted that FED and NCAA do penalize for excessive steps.

  10. Mr. Jimurray, I hope you are not implying that under OBR a pitcher cannot step laterally during his delivery. If you are, then you are wrong. The OBR rule concerning the steps allowed was changed in 2006/2007 to allow a lateral step. I could cite from every single manual but that does not seem to persuade anyone anymore. So here is a cite posted by one of our resident experts in July 2019—and a link to that thread--

    “Concerning the step to the side as the pitcher commits to pitch, make sure that this step is led by the heel and/or side of the foot. If the toes lead the way, consider it a step to the base, which is exactly what it will look like.”

    https://umpire-empire.com/topic/72812-legal-or-illegal-pitch/

    Please delete your post because it is misleading to our regular posters but even more importantly it is hurting our lurkers and newbies. We must let the world know how “woke” and virtuous we are!

  11. Your umpire was not wrong.

    2019 FED rule 2-9 ART. 1 . . . A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight and firmly holding it, provided he does not use his cap, protector, mask, pocket or other part of his uniform to trap the ball. The catch of a fly ball by a fielder is not completed until the continuing action of the catch is completed. A fielder who catches a ball and then runs into a wall or another player and drops the ball has not made a catch. A fielder, at full speed, who catches a ball and whose initial momentum carries him several more yards after which the ball drops from his glove has not made a catch. When the fielder, by his action of stopping, removing the ball from his glove, etc., signifies the initial action is completed and then drops the ball, will be judged to have made the catch. The same definition of a catch would apply when making a double play. It is considered a catch if a fielder catches a fair or foul ball and then steps or falls into a bench, dugout, stand, bleacher or over any boundary or barrier, such as a fence, rope, chalk line, or a pregame determined imaginary boundary line from the field of play. Falling into does not include merely running against such object. (See 2-24-4 for fielder juggling ball and 8-4-1c for intentionally dropped ball; 2-16-2 and 5-1-1d for ball striking catcher before touching his glove.) It is not a catch when a fielder touches a batted ball in flight which then contacts a member of the offensive team or an umpire and is then caught by a defensive player.

    NOTE: When a batted ball or a pitch is involved, the above definition of a catch applies. For any other thrown ball, the term is used loosely to also apply to a pick-up or to the trapping of a low throw which has touched the ground. A fielder may have the ball in his grasp even though it is touching the ground while in his glove.

    2019 NFHS Case Book Play 2.9.1 Situation A:  B1 hits a ground ball to F5. The throw to F3 is wide causing him to stretch for the catch. The ball arrives in time, but as F3 attempts to regain his balance, he drops the ball. Is the runner out? RULING:  Attempts to regain balance after receiving the ball are considered a part of the act of catching, and if the fielder does not come up with the ball in his possession, it is not considered a catch. In all such cases, judgment is a factor. If the ball is clearly in the fielder’s possession and if some other new movement not related to the catch is then made, and if the ball is fumbled in such new movement, the umpire will declare it a catch followed by a fumble.

  12. Mr. Velho, I posted the following in a thread titled OBR ORDER OF APPEALS (Rules forum) on October 13—this is the entire WRIM interpretation not just the cherry picked part--

    From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (pp. 167-168):

    If at the moment a runner misses a base, he was forced to touch it by reason of the batter becoming a runner, it will be a force out upon appeal, even if a following runner is put out during the play or on appeal subsequent to the miss of the base…

    After the third out has been made, the defense may continue to make appeals on runners for missing bases or for not properly tagging up. They may replace any of these outs with the third out if it is advantageous in preventing runs from scoring.

    This is not the case if the appeals make for exactly three outs. If multiple appeals are made which only create three outs, the defense is restricted by the order in which they appeal.

    ***

    These interpretations also appear in the 2016 BRD. So if you are telling us that there is a newer interpretation that supersedes these two in a more recent Wendelstedt manual then it would have to have been after 2016. Still all we have is your assertion that there is a newer interpretation. Let’s see some evidence.

    Please note that the interpretation Mr. Matt and Mr. Jimurray rely on is cherry picked from the reference above. Yes, if a runner misses a base when he is forced the appeal out is a forced out. I don’t think anyone has argued otherwise. But the Wendelstedt manual in the very same section—in fact, the very next page—tells us there is an exception that Messrs. Matt and Jimurray have not refuted with any evidence other than their assertion.

     

  13. I am going to guess based on your screen name, SBLL VP, that the LL means you are asking about Little League. If that is the case, then I would like to point you to the front matter of the Little League rule book and its section called Official Regulations. The following is taken from the 2020 LL Rules Instruction Manual (LL RIM regulation XIV)--

    XIV – FIELD DECORUM

    (d) A manager or coach shall not leave the bench or dugout except to confer with a player or an umpire and only after receiving permission from an umpire. (EXCEPTION: In Tee Ball and Minor League, managers and coaches may be on the field for instructional purposes but shall not assist runners or touch a live ball. At least one adult manager or coach must be in the dugout at all times.)

    INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS:

    ➔ The only time a Manager or Coach is permitted out of the dugout without permission is to coach in the coaching box.

    ➔ This provision includes between innings and during any other break in the action. Managers and coaches are limited to the dugout unless serving as a base coach, talking with a pitcher during a charged conference, checking on an injured player, making a lineup change or discussing a rules decision with the umpire.

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  14. This rule first entered the book in 1910 as rule 72-3:  In all cases where there are no spectators on the playing field, and where a thrown ball goes into a stand for spectators, or over or through any fence surrounding the playing field, or into the players’ bench (whether the ball rebounds into the field or not), the runner or runners shall be entitled to two bases. The umpire in awarding such bases shall be governed by the position of the runner or runners at the time the throw is made.

    In the early 1930s it had morphed into what sometimes was a three-base award as evidenced by this note attached to the rule--from the 1934 edition rule 65 Section 2--

    Note—The latter part of Section 2 means that if a runner has started to steal second base and an overthrow is made, the runner shall be given not only second, if in the opinion of the umpire he might have made the base, but two bases in addition.

    The baseball powers that be finally realized that a three-base award is just too severe a penalty for an overthrow and through a series of amendments over the years to the rule set out to limit the award to two bases in all overthrow situations. This history of the rule is also why the Jaksa/Roder interpretation I posted earlier referenced not allowing the lead runner three bases to enable the two-base award to the trail runner. It is also why in 1951 the Comment was added to the rule to cover the anomaly that is presented when both runners are between first and second base when the overthrow is made.

    The Comment has always been about the exception to the rule hence the “certain circumstances” language used to start the Comment. It is not outright wrong, there is no “glitch” in the rule and no one screwed up in its formulation.

  15. Mr. Sanjay Arwade, as Mr. Rich Ives so succinctly put it there is no such rule. So is it possible that there is simply a misunderstanding here? Perhaps what you were told is that it is permissible for the pitcher to step laterally in his delivery motion (i.e., can step instead of must step to the side).

    Little League rules are based on Official Baseball Rules (OBR). It used to be in OBR that it was prohibited for a pitcher to start with his free foot off to the side of the rubber or to step to the side during his delivery motion. They changed that rule in 2006 or 2007 but I don’t think Little League ever felt the need to amend the rule—I guess LL is not concerned about the step of a pitcher’s free foot because runners don’t take leads and so it couldn’t be a balk.

  16. I don’t know what levels Mr. flyingron works but if it includes high school then he could be right. Please note that the current FED rule 8-2-7 uses the language “does not attempt or feint an advance.”

    ART. 7 . . . A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or overslides may immediately return without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second.

    2018 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations

    SITUATION 1: With a runner on second base and one out, the batter attempts to check his swing on a 3-2 count. As the pitch skips by the catcher, the batter takes off for first base. The plate umpire eventually checks with the base umpire as to whether the batter checked his swing (in which case it would be ball four) or if the batter did swing at the pitch (in which case it would be strike three). As the batter runs through first base, the base umpire answers the plate umpire by announcing that the batter did not swing, that he successfully checked his swing. The catcher throws the ball to the first baseman, who tags the batter as he directly returns to first base. RULING: The batter is not out. A batter-runner who reaches first base safely and then overruns or overslides may immediately return without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to second. This applies to base hits as well as a base on balls. (8-2-7)

  17. Mr. TOMUIC, what I posted about the history of the rule was definitely meant to support and agree with you. You are right and the others are wrong. A rule that has been in the books for 145 consecutive years would not be simply superseded by some mystery interpretation.

    And I, of course, also agree that it supports the fact that the order of appeals does matter with regard to negating runs. In fact, all three codes have a rule or interpretations saying precisely that. We’ve already posted the FED and pro rulings—here’s the NCAA rule:

    For the NCAA, the order of appeals does matter. It actually says so in its rule 8-6b9 Note--

    2021-2022 NCAA rule 8-6

    b. The appeals made under this section must take place before the next pitch, play or attempted play or before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the dugout, if it is an inning-ending or game-ending appeal.

    9) If there are two outs before the appeal on a runner, the appeal becoming the third out, no runners following the appealed out shall score, and if the appeal is a force out, no runners preceding or following the appealed out shall score (see Rule 2 – Force Play).

    Note: If the defense will make more than one appeal, the defense must appeal in the correct order unless it is an advantageous “fourth out” appeal.

  18. Mr. TOMUIC, the current rule you cite has been a part of the rule book not just for the past 40 years but since the very beginning of pro ball. In other words it actually is a fundamental part of the game.

    As you know the National League played its first season in 1876. Here’s the rule for that season and a form of the rule has been in the book every year since then--

    1876 National League rule VI Sec. 2. No player running the bases shall be forced to vacate the base he occupies unless by the act of the batsman in striking a fair ball. Should the first base be occupied by a base-runner when a fair ball is struck, the base-runner shall cease to be entitled to hold said base until the player running to first base shall be put out. The same rule shall apply in the case of the occupancy of the other bases under similar circumstances. No base-runner shall be forced to vacate the base he occupies if the base-runner succeeding him is not thus obliged to vacate his base.

  19. From the 2016 BRD (section 13, p. 26):

    FED Official Interpretation:  Hopkins:  If the defense will make multiple appeals:  When a force play situation is in effect, the appeals must be made in the proper order.

    2003 NFHS Baseball Rule Interpretations SITUATION 4: With one out and runners on first and second bases, on a fair hit to short right field, R2 scores from second base and R1 misses second base, and the batter-runner overruns and misses first base. The defense calls time and appeals R1 missing second base first and the batter-runner missing first base. The umpire honors the appeals which results in the third out. Does R2's run count? RULING: No, R2's run would not count because the first appeal at second base and the latter appeal at first base is the third out. Due to the force at first base, the run cannot count. (9-1-1a)

    2006 NFHS Baseball Interpretations  SITUATION 12: With R1 on third and R2 on second base and one out, B4 hits a line drive into the gap in right center field. R1 scores easily. R2 misses third base as he advances, but does touch home plate. B4 makes it to second base on an apparent double, but missed first base on his advance. After playing action is over, the defensive head coach is granted time and first appeals B4 missing first base and then appeals R2 missing third base. RULING: This is a legal appeal by the defense as the coach may verbally appeal a base running infraction when the ball is dead and may make multiple appeals. B4 would be declared out for the second out and R2 would be the third out. R1’s run would count. (8-2-6c,f; 9-1-1)

    SITUATION 13: With R3 on third and R2 on second base and one out, B4 hits a line drive into the gap in right center field. R3 scores easily. R2 misses third base as he advances, but does touch home plate. B4 makes it to second base on an apparent double, but missed first base on his advance. After playing action is over, the defensive head coach is granted time and first appeals R2 missing third base and then appeals B4 missing first base. RULING: This is a legal appeal by the defense as the coach may verbally appeal a base running infraction when the ball is dead and may make multiple appeals. R2 would be declared out for out number two and B4 would be the third out. No runs would score as B4’s out is out number three and was made before he touched first base. The order in which appeals are made can be important in determining if runs will score. (8-2-6c,f, 9-1-1a)

  20. From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (pp. 167-168):

    If at the moment a runner misses a base, he was forced to touch it by reason of the batter becoming a runner, it will be a force out upon appeal, even if a following runner is put out during the play or on appeal subsequent to the miss of the base…

    After the third out has been made, the defense may continue to make appeals on runners for missing bases or for not properly tagging up. They may replace any of these outs with the third out if it is advantageous in preventing runs from scoring.

    This is not the case if the appeals make for exactly three outs. If multiple appeals are made which only create three outs, the defense is restricted by the order in which they appeal.

    ***

    These interpretations also appear in the 2016 BRD. So if you are telling us that there is a newer interpretation that supersedes these two in a more recent Wendelstedt manual then it would have to have been after 2016. Still all we have is your assertion that there is a newer interpretation. Let’s see some evidence.

     

  21. The 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual defines a runner passing a base as follows (section 5.14, p. 55):

    A runner is considered to have passed a base if he has both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction to which he is advancing. The direction the runner is advancing determines the edges of the base when defining when a runner has passed a base.

    A runner returning to their original base is required to retouch that original base before advancing if both of their feet are on the ground beyond the original base.

    ***

    Two diagrams accompany the text and they have been reproduced here on U-E a few times (I cannot do so now since I do not have a scanner). The diagram in the book shows that two edges of second base would be considered passing and two would not be. For a runner coming from first base the left field side of second base and the third base side of second are the edges where an advancing runner is considered to have passed the base.

    As you describe it, you are correct—the Tampa runner Arozarena did not pass second base so he would be legal to continue his advance.

  22. To our guests, Daryl M and Billy, you are right that no one has addressed your question about the rationale behind the check swing appeal rule. That’s because we are not privy to the discussions that take place in rules committee’s meetings--the reason for most rules is not common knowledge.

    For the most part we do not hear about the reason for a rule change. In the recent past there have been rules that actually had a name attached to it such as the Buster Posey rule or the Chase Utley rule where we know what prompted the rule change.

    I can tell you that the check swing appeal rule is relatively new—it entered the rule book as a case book comment in 1976. Prior to that no appeal on a check swing was allowed—the plate umpire’s decision was final. Then all the case book interpretations were incorporated into the rule book proper in 1978 where it became rule 9.02(c) Comment.

    From the early 1900s to the early 1950s MLB used 2-man umpire crews--it wasn’t until 1952 that the MLB went to a 4-man crew for all regular season games. There was no rule that required the plate umpire to ask for help so he didn’t. The defense had no recourse if a home plate umpire’s vision was blocked or some other circumstance prevented him from gauging whether a batter swung at a pitch. I think this was the impetus for a change to the rule—it was perceived as a denial to the defense.

    Of course, there were probably other factors involved as well.

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  23. Mr. Steven Tyler, when did you work high school games? In 2019 FED ruled the same as OBR on the deflection of a batted ball. I can tell you that this same play was in the 1983 case book.

    2019 NFHS Case Book Play 8.3.3 Situation H:  B1 hits a long fly ball to left field. F7 goes back to the fence, leaps, but is not able to touch the fly ball. The ball then rebounds off the fence, strikes the fielder’s glove and ricochets over the fence in fair territory. Is this a home run or a ground-rule double? RULING:  This would be considered a ground-rule double. To be a home run, the ball must clear the fence in flight. Action secondary to the hit (ball ricocheting off the fence and then off the fielder’s glove) caused the ball to go into dead-ball area. Therefore, the hit shall be ruled a ground-rule double.

  24. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (p. 51): If a batted or thrown ball inadvertently goes inside a player’s or coach’s uniform, lodges in the catcher’s face mask or paraphernalia, or is intentionally placed inside a player’s uniform (e.g., in a pants pocket), the umpire shall call “Time.” The umpire will, using common sense and fair play, place all runners in such a manner that will nullify the action of the ball going out of play…Any outs recorded prior to the ball going into the player’s or coach’s uniform (or lodges in the catcher’s mask or paraphernalia) will stand.

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