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SnareDrum

Dogging it?

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They may have "agreed" but I bet most or all won't make that call and don't go looking for it.

In the latest post, it was revealed to be looking for it again, even with a pitch down the middle. And, the story is constantly changing. Now, it is 5 - 6 inches.

There is a reason these kind of calls are not sought out to be called. The accuracy isn't there and these posts prove it. And, it causes unnecessary problems. Again, the posts prove it.

Criticism is constructive if one chooses to use it. As shown, it is going to be refused. Thus, making it non-constructive. I think the message is pretty clear by all parties on this. Look for trouble and it will find you as proven by the mere subject of this thread. This falls under the "catcher's balk" we love to discuss after someone makes that call. The intent of the rule is not being violated so why go looking for the trouble.

I have learned something here and that's, as you said earlier, the spirit of this rule. I have not and would never go looking for this call but have called it once on a normal pitch and foul ball but the batter was extremely far out of the front of the box, obvious to all. Would you EVER make this call on anything besides a drag bunt or IBB?

I have and learned my lesson. It could have caused as much trouble as Roger encountered but it didn't. I made that call well before I found these forums by several years. I have not made that call again and I have successfully diverted any coach's attempt to draw my attention to it by techniques learned on these forums. Things like just ignoring them to saying "I don't have a box to go by anymore" to acknowledging them, checking it, and then telling them he's legal as far as I can tell (again, no box to go by).

It will have to be VERY extreme for me to consider it ever again. Those 2 examples will probably be the only 2 extreme cases I would consider it for.

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.

try to only call "TIME" instead of dead ball......

also I am not saying your wrong, cause it is the rule... But if there was no batter box, like you had said, then why go looking for stuff like this. this is a good way of getting into trouble... Umpires who look for things..

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I'm not going to condemn you for making the call, you saw it and made it, good ,but one thing I would like to point out is this. If you didn't make the call and say the DC came out saying " Come on Blue, he stepped way out." and begins pointing at SOME footprint in the dirt. What would you do ? I would toss him right there for showing me up. Now, It may not be a good practice to do something ( show a coach a footprint) that you would eject a coach for. Again not trying to condemn just pointing out something you may want to think about.

I still wouldn't toss him for "showing you Up" he is trying to show you where the batter stepped out.. thell the coach, " don't show me I can see" this is called ".demonstrating" tell him before he starts don't do it

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I'm not going to condemn you for making the call, you saw it and made it, good ,but one thing I would like to point out is this. If you didn't make the call and say the DC came out saying " Come on Blue, he stepped way out." and begins pointing at SOME footprint in the dirt. What would you do ? I would toss him right there for showing me up. Now, It may not be a good practice to do something ( show a coach a footprint) that you would eject a coach for. Again not trying to condemn just pointing out something you may want to think about.

I still wouldn't toss him for "showing you Up" he is trying to show you where the batter stepped out.. thell the coach, " don't show me I can see" this is called ".demonstrating" tell him before he starts don't do it

I agree. I had a coach call me to 1B the other day after an inning ending play at 1B. He was standing there pointing at the dirt. As I approached I said "Jim, If your going to show me a footprint, don't do that." He understood me and complained a little about the F3 pulling his foot but never pointed. I may have exaggerated a little on the ejection part but I think we all agree that pointing at footprints is not a method we aprove of from coaches and would eject if he doesn't stop immediatly.

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Calling a batter out for stepping out of the box is sometimes called but many times ignorred because it is too hard to be right. If I think a guy is setting up too close or too far back, or I think he is striding out the front, I will draw a line to reestablish the box. Most times this is enough to let everybody know that they need to reel in their actions. It happens mostly on bunts and does need to be called because they are gaining an advantage by doing so. Striding ou the front may be an advantage, maybe a disadvantage. Once the lines are gone, without me putting it back I would leave it unless it is extremely agregious.

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Calling a batter out for stepping out of the box is sometimes called but many times ignorred because it is too hard to be right. If I think a guy is setting up too close or too far back, or I think he is striding out the front, I will draw a line to reestablish the box. Most times this is enough to let everybody know that they need to reel in their actions. It happens mostly on bunts and does need to be called because they are gaining an advantage by doing so. Striding ou the front may be an advantage, maybe a disadvantage. Once the lines are gone, without me putting it back I would leave it unless it is extremely agregious.

Since this a common problem at this complex, I may even at plate pre-game tell the coaches that if a batter needs to know where the lines are, I'll happily grab his bat or my brush and sketch them in not just so he stays in, but it may even help with his established stance and positioning, while reminding them that the black markers are on the corners of the boxes... or just during the game, every now and then draw 'em in especially if I see a problem developing. As was mentioned before, without the white lines or a "draw-in" this probably should have been a "let it go."

I'll see the coach tomorrow barring rain and then again next week. It'll probably be "water under the bridge", but you never know...

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They may have "agreed" but I bet most or all won't make that call and don't go looking for it.

In the latest post, it was revealed to be looking for it again, even with a pitch down the middle. And, the story is constantly changing. Now, it is 5 - 6 inches.

There is a reason these kind of calls are not sought out to be called. The accuracy isn't there and these posts prove it. And, it causes unnecessary problems. Again, the posts prove it.

Criticism is constructive if one chooses to use it. As shown, it is going to be refused. Thus, making it non-constructive. I think the message is pretty clear by all parties on this. Look for trouble and it will find you as proven by the mere subject of this thread. This falls under the "catcher's balk" we love to discuss after someone makes that call. The intent of the rule is not being violated so why go looking for the trouble.

I have learned something here and that's, as you said earlier, the spirit of this rule. I have not and would never go looking for this call but have called it once on a normal pitch and foul ball but the batter was extremely far out of the front of the box, obvious to all. Would you EVER make this call on anything besides a drag bunt or IBB?

I called this last week with no drag bunt or IBB. I felt I had to.

JV game. DHC points out to me that #11 on the other team lines up with his foot on the front of the box and consistently steps out every time he swings. He asked me to keep an eye on it. I told him I would. 3 ABs go by and it is close, but I don't call it. DHC asks me about it and I explain #11 is close, but legal.

4th AB, final inning. VT is down by two with no one on and one out. #11 steps out by 4 inches and singles. oh darn. I know DHC saw it, I had to call it. OHC walks up and points at me and says "in 20 years, I have NEVER seen an umpire call that!! You must REALLY want to go home. " I felt like I should explain the conversation I had with OHC, but i didn't. All I could muster was, "Coach, don't point at me. Put your finger down. He's out of the box. I saw it. I can't ignore it. That's it." Some more stuff follows until he feels like he is done.

SO in this situation, I didn't think I had a choice.

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I called this last week with no drag bunt or IBB. I felt I had to.

If you saw it, you should call it. I just called it for the first time myself, about a week ago.

It wasn't a drag bunt, but a RHB. Pitch came in high, but in my periphery, I clearly saw the batter step on home plate as he made contact - instead of just taking a CLEAR 'ball.' Bunt was in fair ground, but I killed it right away. [FED rules, so it's supposed to be called, unless I've messed up the FED rule.] This may be the EJ part of the forum, but I didn't need one - not a peep.

Now I might get killed here for this, since I've already said the pitch was way up, and people will wonder how I saw it. I can't answer that, other than to say that I did. F2 was going up for the ball, and I think I was, too, because was blocking me. But I think the batter having to reach so much may have made me more prepared/aware of that potential issue. So I saw it, and I got it.

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I called this last week with no drag bunt or IBB. I felt I had to.

If you saw it, you should call it. I just called it for the first time myself, about a week ago.

It wasn't a drag bunt, but a RHB. Pitch came in high, but in my periphery, I clearly saw the batter step on home plate as he made contact - instead of just taking a CLEAR 'ball.' Bunt was in fair ground, but I killed it right away. [FED rules, so it's supposed to be called, unless I've messed up the FED rule.] This may be the EJ part of the forum, but I didn't need one - not a peep.

Now I might get killed here for this, since I've already said the pitch was way up, and people will wonder how I saw it. I can't answer that, other than to say that I did. F2 was going up for the ball, and I think I was, too, because was blocking me. But I think the batter having to reach so much may have made me more prepared/aware of that potential issue. So I saw it, and I got it.

Same rule violation/penalty. Similar situation, but yet different. On SDIX's, you really had no choice. You would've had problems either way, but will some say as they did earlier that you were "looking for it"? HokieUmp, that's similar as mine. Saw it and called it, but it was the plate more or less right in front of you. I'm sure the rocks won't fly at you two as hard as they did at me (simialr situation, yet different), but this is really turning into a rather captivating thread.

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I get it a couple of times a year, mostly on bunts. For some reason I can't explain LH batters tend to swing their left foot forward instead of their right back. This leads to them stepping on the plate, easy to call because all of a sudden he is in your vision blocking your view of the pitch. If the coach complains about no lines, I tell them that generally the lines are on the plate.

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They may have "agreed" but I bet most or all won't make that call and don't go looking for it.

In the latest post, it was revealed to be looking for it again, even with a pitch down the middle. And, the story is constantly changing. Now, it is 5 - 6 inches.

There is a reason these kind of calls are not sought out to be called. The accuracy isn't there and these posts prove it. And, it causes unnecessary problems. Again, the posts prove it.

Criticism is constructive if one chooses to use it. As shown, it is going to be refused. Thus, making it non-constructive. I think the message is pretty clear by all parties on this. Look for trouble and it will find you as proven by the mere subject of this thread. This falls under the "catcher's balk" we love to discuss after someone makes that call. The intent of the rule is not being violated so why go looking for the trouble.

I have learned something here and that's, as you said earlier, the spirit of this rule. I have not and would never go looking for this call but have called it once on a normal pitch and foul ball but the batter was extremely far out of the front of the box, obvious to all. Would you EVER make this call on anything besides a drag bunt or IBB?

I called this last week with no drag bunt or IBB. I felt I had to.

JV game. DHC points out to me that #11 on the other team lines up with his foot on the front of the box and consistently steps out every time he swings. He asked me to keep an eye on it. I told him I would. 3 ABs go by and it is close, but I don't call it. DHC asks me about it and I explain #11 is close, but legal.

4th AB, final inning. VT is down by two with no one on and one out. #11 steps out by 4 inches and singles. oh darn. I know DHC saw it, I had to call it. OHC walks up and points at me and says "in 20 years, I have NEVER seen an umpire call that!! You must REALLY want to go home. " I felt like I should explain the conversation I had with OHC, but i didn't. All I could muster was, "Coach, don't point at me. Put your finger down. He's out of the box. I saw it. I can't ignore it. That's it." Some more stuff follows until he feels like he is done.

SO in this situation, I didn't think I had a choice.

I agree. I think there are times when you have no choice. Unfortunately this is a rule that most everyone knows at least partly so if a DC sees a guy setting up way in the front or back of the box he starts looking and waiting. Now if it's close you can always say you had his heel on the line or something like that but if it's severe, I think you have to hold your nose and make the call.

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I called this last week with no drag bunt or IBB. I felt I had to.

JV game. DHC points out to me that #11 on the other team lines up with his foot on the front of the box and consistently steps out every time he swings.

Preventive umpiring might have helped stop the problem. If not you could explain to the offensive coach that you tried and that can help stop his complaint.

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I am not sure preventive umpiring is appropriate here. Seems to me I would be coaching a player to avoid an out. Does not seem fair to the other coach.

I will use preventive umpiring to pull the catcher away from potentially getting hit by a bat, but I am not sure I can tell a batter to watch himself in the box.

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I am not sure preventive umpiring is appropriate here. Seems to me I would be coaching a player to avoid an out. Does not seem fair to the other coach.

I will use preventive umpiring to pull the catcher away from potentially getting hit by a bat, but I am not sure I can tell a batter to watch himself in the box.

Just ask him if he can see the line at the front of the box. He will get the message. If its kids then maybe just draw it in anyway, or explain the rule. Your not coaching or telling him what to do just explaining what will happen if he doesnt.

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I am not sure preventive umpiring is appropriate here. Seems to me I would be coaching a player to avoid an out. Does not seem fair to the other coach.

I will use preventive umpiring to pull the catcher away from potentially getting hit by a bat, but I am not sure I can tell a batter to watch himself in the box.

Is that not the same thing? Are you not preventing catcher's interference?

I understand the safety aspect but there could potentially be a rule violation here as well.

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After all of this talk about "batter out of the box", I have not called that in so long (about over 8 years ago). But, I had to call it yesterday.

12U, batter bunts 1st AB. I noticed his right foot may have been out b/c it was almost completely behind HP (and his body was almost in the strike zone) but no lines and no complaints. I called nothing. Well, he comes up again and was completely out of the box when he bunted the ball.

How do I know it? Well, when a batter is completely blocking you from seeing the pitcher. And, the pitch is high but down the middle of the plate. How he was able to bunt the ball straight at him and above his head is beyond me (even though it did go foul). It is kind of hard to miss the fact that he is out of the box b/c his feet are straddling HP. So, to answer carolinablue's question, I would call it if it is a VERY extreme case. This was very extreme.

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I had one similar to this a couple of years ago. (13u OBR) Lob ball pitcher throwing to the stud of the team. He's got his front foot on the front line of the box. First pitch comes in and it's a ball but the batter takes his usual stride and steps probably 6" to 8" inches past the front line.

I mention to him to watch that front foot. He looks at me like "mind your own business" (I guess I should have) Next pitch comes in and it's in the zone and he spanks it right up the middle. The foot was once again out of the box.

That was an easy one.

1st base coach asks me what happened, I tell him, he shruggs his shoulders and we move on to the next batter.

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