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Pickoff throw to F3 who is playing in


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Bases loaded, 1 out. F3 is playing a little bit in front of the first base bag and a couple steps off the line. 9-10 feet away from the base. Pitcher throws a pickoff to a surprised F3 who catches it and immediately returns it to F1. The ball was thrown directly at the bag, meaning if F3 missed it, it would have gone straight over the bag. I called nothing because it's my understanding (from reading this site) that as long as pitcher throws to the base, it doesnt matter where the fielders are. But the coach who knows the rules extremely well was sure it should have been a balk because F3 wasnt in the vicinity of the base. 

I cant find the thread where I got my interpretation. Can anyone clarify?

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I’m interested in the answers here. The throw was to the bag. However, the throw was also to F3  who was not on the bag and , I assume from your wording,  was in no position to make a play on R1.  I’m inclined to say balk. I can be convinced otherwise by an interpretation or our esteemed panel 

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The rule requires a throw to a base. Legal play.

I'll never forget one of the goofy scenes that Jim Evans included in his old balk video to illustrate the point. No fielder in sight, and F1 rolls the ball to 1B (and it gets there). His ruling: it's a throw to a base, so legal. The balk rule requires a step and throw to a base; it doesn't actually mention a fielder!

Rich: imagine a similar play. F3 is in his usual pickoff position, and R1 is standing on 1B. F1 throws a (legal) lollipop pick, F3 knows that's silly, and he comes off 1B directly toward the mound to intercept the throw. When he catches it, he's where F3 was in the OP. You're ruling that a balk? Not me, my friend! I prefer to live longer...

The interpretation of "not in a position to make a play" is intended not as an independent criterion of a balk, but rather as an interpretation of "fielder away from a base." When F1 steps and throws to a base, he has satisfied that provision (and no, the ball does not need to hit the base—had a first-time-I-read-that-rule coach offer that interp to me once).

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This is from J/R (an old version, so ignore the now incorrect references at third base):

(It is a balk if F1)

11. steps to first base
(a) but does not complete the throw.
(b) but interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw there.
(c) and throws to first baseman who, because of his distance from the base, is
unable to try a tag against the runner at first.
However, it is not a balk if a pitcher steps to
(a) first base and throws over the base when the first baseman is not in a
position to make a tag attempt.

(b) third or second base (regardless of whether there is a throw).
(c) third or second base and interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw. The
step toward the base suffices to constitute a feint or throw, so any action
after the step is legal.
(d) third or second base and throws to a fielder who is at a distance from the
base, and due to the distance, is unable to attempt a tag of the runner.
(e) third, second, or first base from the windup position.

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Guest Guest Guest

So am I misreading, or do Maven and Noumpere's posted interps contradict each other? Specifically the bolded (c) in noumpere's post

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8 minutes ago, Guest Guest Guest said:

So am I misreading, or do Maven and Noumpere's posted interps contradict each other? Specifically the bolded (c) in noumpere's post

Which is immediately followed by "however it is not a balk if..."   Read the whole bolded area and you will see there is no contradiction, but corroboration.

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Ive tried a couple times to get a copy of the famous Jim Evans balk video and cant find it anywhere. Ebay, google, youtube, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a copy of this legendary film?

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There was an MLB game earlier this year where the pitcher was called for a balk for throwing to the first baseman who was playing in position (not holding the runner).  I believe the throw went to the fielder, not the bag, though I could be wrong.  Probably no help here.

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Guest Coach

Rich...not to stray to far off the OP scenario, but if a quick step back and a feint to 1B is Ok, why isn't a quick step to the side and then a feint OK ? neither first step is toward the base.

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3 minutes ago, Guest Coach said:

Rich...not to stray to far off the OP scenario, but if a quick step back and a feint to 1B is Ok, why isn't a quick step to the side and then a feint OK ? neither first step is toward the base.

A "quick step back" must be legal disengagement: the pivot foot moving directly back and behind (not on) the rubber, and (nominally) touching the ground before the hands separate. By rule, a disengaged F1 may throw or feint like any other infielder: the pitching restrictions end.

A "quick step to the side" is part of a jump turn or jab step, which by interpretation is allowed as part of a move "from the rubber." Accordingly, the pitching restrictions still apply, and feinting a throw to 1B is still prohibited. And that move must also include the free foot stepping toward 1B prior to the throw.

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From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 147):

There are two types of steps that are legal—jab or stutter step and a jump step.

Jab Step (of the pivot foot):  In cases of a right-handed pitcher throwing to first, or a left-handed pitcher throwing to third, or any pitcher throwing to second, a pitcher can take a jab or stutter step with his pivot foot before stepping to the base with his free foot. The motion of the stutter step and the resulting step of the free foot must be fluid and continuous; if the two motions are not continuous, there is a balk. Of course, the latter step must bring the free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot that is closer to the pickoff base.

Jump Step:  A pitcher can, without balking, jump (i.e., both his feet go airborne simultaneously) before his non-pivot foot retouches the ground in a different position: this is a jump step. Again, the latter step must bring the free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot that is closer to the pickoff base.

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.19, p. 102):

It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with his non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base.

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Guest Coach

Thanks !  Wow....Pivot foot in front of the rubber isn't a disengagement, while the pivot foot behind the rubber is.   I never would have known.   Usually rules are for reasons.   Is there a logical reason for this distinction ?

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4 minutes ago, Guest Coach said:

  Is there a logical reason for this distinction ?

Yes.  Originally, the rules did not allow the jab step or the jump turn.  Either was not a "direct' move to first.  So, once the pitcher was on the rubber, he had to disengage by stepping off the back of the rubber.

Now that the moves are allowed (and it's by interp only; not in the OBR rules, iirc) it lets the runner (and umpires) know whether the pitcher is disengaging or making a move toward first.  Not that, bu rule, the pitcher must disengage *before* making a feint (that is, before even separating his hands), or it's a balk.  The interp on that is somewhat relaxed, but an all0in-one step-back-and-feint will likely still be balked -- especially if the body twists or the arm comes forward before the pivot foot hits the ground.

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Mr. maven, you stated in an earlier post the following, “A quick step to the side is part of a jump turn or jab step…” I wonder why a pitcher who is going to use a jump turn would first make a jab step before jumping. Wouldn’t that be combining the two legal steps into one? And I wonder if that is actually legal to do. Here’s what the 2015 MLBUM says about a jump turn—

If a pitcher, while touching the pitcher’s plate, jumps into the air with both feet simultaneously and his non-pivot foot lands in a step towards first base before he throws to that base, he has made a legal move.

The 2018 MiLBUM uses nearly identical language. The part where it says “while touching the pitcher’s plate” is what I am wondering about specifically. Is it legal to take the jab step and then jump and why would a pitcher do that? Doesn't the jab step take the pitcher off the rubber? What do you think?

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Mr. noumpere, you posted earlier that, “Originally, the rules did not allow the jab step or the jump turn. Either was not a "direct' move to first. So, once the pitcher was on the rubber, he had to disengage by stepping off the back of the rubber.” A question for you--

I have been able to confirm through at least two different sources that the pitching rubber did not come into use until 1893 and the pitcher was required to keep his back foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate. And it wasn’t until 1899 when a pitcher was assessed a balk if he threw to a base in an attempt to pick off a runner without first stepping toward that base.

But you know what? I cannot find any mention of jab steps or jump turns or direct moves to first anywhere. Could you please give us a citation as to where you found your information and thus save me some search time? Thanks.

 

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 7:49 AM, noumpere said:

This is from J/R (an old version, so ignore the now incorrect references at third base):

(It is a balk if F1)

11. steps to first base
(a) but does not complete the throw.
(b) but interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw there.
(c) and throws to first baseman who, because of his distance from the base, is
unable to try a tag against the runner at first.
However, it is not a balk if a pitcher steps to
(a) first base and throws over the base when the first baseman is not in a
position to make a tag attempt.

(b) third or second base (regardless of whether there is a throw).
(c) third or second base and interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw. The
step toward the base suffices to constitute a feint or throw, so any action
after the step is legal.
(d) third or second base and throws to a fielder who is at a distance from the
base, and due to the distance, is unable to attempt a tag of the runner.
(e) third, second, or first base from the windup position.

So the "proximity" issue only is applied at first base, correct?

Pitcher wheels towards 2nd, realizes no one's there as he goes to throw, so throws to the SS that is in his normal position.

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Mr. Thatsnotyou, the proximity issue is applied at third base as well. Mr. noumpere gave us a disclaimer that what he posted was from a very old source. I have a 2007 edition of the Jaksa/Roder manual and what he posted does not match that. Here’s what it says about the proximity issue in its 2017 edition (Chapter 18, p. 148):

However, it is not a balk if an in-contact pitcher steps to

(a)   first or third base and throws over the base when the first baseman is not in a position to make a tag attempt.

(b)   second base (regardless of whether there is a throw). [6.02a3 Comment]

(c)   second base and interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw. The step toward the base suffices to constitute a feint or throw, so any action after the step is legal. [6.02a3 Comment] [NFHS 6-2-4a]

(d)   second base and throws to a fielder who is at a distance from the base, and due to the distance, is unable to attempt a tag of the runner.

(e)   third, second, or first base from the windup position (requires a throw to first or third while in-contact).

Please, Mr. noumpere, no more old citations or try to edit them. They are quite confusing. Perhaps consider updating your library.

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