Game management question

[Gfoley4]

Had this come up in 13-14 year old PONY league game last week. Pitch comes in on the outside corner, maybe a little bit off, I of course give it a strike. Player shakes his head a little bit and and when he takes his practice motion where you do a few check swings, he makes an exaggerated motion where his bat swings to the outside corner, or even further out. I sternly warned him (mask still on) and just said "no, we're not doing that today" while the pitcher came set. 

Would you guys have treated this differently?   

[Scotty_Ump]

HTBT, but at that level I'm fine with verbal acknowledgement and nipping it right here. But IMO, if players decide to act like that they'd better be swinging away on the next pitch anywhere near that location.

Now A) reaching the bat across the plate to touch the other batter's box line, or B) line-drawing in general - that's a different story. I'm going right to the "that's enough" warning in A and likely tossing in B.

Just one ump's opinion...

[Thatsnotyou]

I think you have to say something there, but I would have just said something like “knock it off”. And agreed with above, at that point the zone just got bigger. 

Side note - and not meaning to single out the poster here, just reminded me about it in general - why do so many say “today” when warning or acknowledging? Are we (coaches) cool to do it tomorrow? What about Sunday? Can I ask you before the game to see what’s OK for that game? 

I just don’t think “today” is necessary at all. Implies that it’s ok sometimes, just not today. Not in the mood for it today. Try me tomorrow. “Today” makes anything you say before it a bit weaker. I think we should all stop using it. 

I’ve responded to ball strike chirps at times with “Mike we’re not doing this.” I don’t think anything is lost by not saying “today”. 

[Biscuit]

2 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

I think you have to say something there, but I would have just said something like “knock it off”. And agreed with above, at that point the zone just got bigger. 

Side note - and not meaning to single out the poster here, just reminded me about it in general - why do so many say “today” when warning or acknowledging? Are we (coaches) cool to do it tomorrow? What about Sunday? Can I ask you before the game to see what’s OK for that game? 

I just don’t think “today” is necessary at all. Implies that it’s ok sometimes, just not today. Not in the mood for it today. Try me tomorrow. “Today” makes anything you say before it a bit weaker. I think we should all stop using it. 

I’ve responded to ball strike chirps at times with “Mike we’re not doing this.” I don’t think anything is lost by not saying “today”. 

I think you're probably right. However, I work a level of ball where the officiating is SUPER inconsistent. You get some good umpires (hopefully me included) that could address this kind of stuff, and you get some really, really, bad umpires who wouldn't, or worse, escalate the situation recklessly. I don't really use "today" all that much, but if I were too, it wouldn't be so much saying that I might be okay with it some other day, but more that, today, you're playing in a game where I'm in control, and it's not gonna happen. 

Not sure that's a ton better, but that's just my  on how it can be used.

[Thatsnotyou]

7 hours ago, Biscuit said:

I think you're probably right. However, I work a level of ball where the officiating is SUPER inconsistent. You get some good umpires (hopefully me included) that could address this kind of stuff, and you get some really, really, bad umpires who wouldn't, or worse, escalate the situation recklessly. I don't really use "today" all that much, but if I were too, it wouldn't be so much saying that I might be okay with it some other day, but more that, today, you're playing in a game where I'm in control, and it's not gonna happen. 

Not sure that's a ton better, but that's just my  on how it can be used.

I see that angle too, but in a way that’s just kind of passing the buck to the next umpire (if the coach interprets it that way, which I’m not sure they would every time) whether they are good or bad. They should know that X isn’t a thing they should be doing, well, ever. Don’t invite them to challenge the next guy or try to get away with it, or worse yet, make it seem like it’s my rule today I’m making up or something. Example, they should know that jewelry isn’t just not worn today, but all days (fed). No buckets on the field ever, not not just today (by rule these need to be in the dugout coach). Or whatever the situation may be. 

[maven]

At any level this needs to be addressed, as it's akin to drawing a line in the dirt and shows us up.

How it's addressed will vary widely, depending on the level, skill of players and coaches, heat of the game, individual umpire's temperament, and other variables. But something along the lines of "knock it off" works as a general rule: it acknowledges that we saw it and expresses that we're not tolerating it. If the same kid can't get his head in the game after that, maybe he needs the day off.

[yawetag]

I've always looked at "today" as a way to prevent the "well he's been doing it all year" type of comments. He might have, but not today.

[Thatsnotyou]

34 minutes ago, yawetag said:

I've always looked at "today" as a way to prevent the "well he's been doing it all year" type of comments. He might have, but not today.

Sure, but it also goes back to the "if you throw your bat it's an out because I'm making up rules" type of umpire discussion we had a few weeks ago.

I've had someone talk about jewelry in that regard. Instead of "today", I simply explained that by rule, jewelry can't be worn. It's not my rule, or because I'm in the mood for it this particular game.

[The Man in Blue]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:32 AM, yawetag said:

I've always looked at "today" as a way to prevent the "well he's been doing it all year" type of comments. He might have, but not today.

 

Thats the way I have always viewed it, but I can see the other side.

[jms1425]

Coach: "Nobody's called that all year!"

Me: "Coach, I don't know about any other games, but we're gonna get it right today."

[noumpere]

10 hours ago, jms1425 said:

Coach: "Nobody's called that all year!"

 

"Thank You!" (as you would say when given a great compliment)

[The Man in Blue]

15 hours ago, jms1425 said:

Coach: "Nobody's called that all year!"

That’s because most hitters hit that pitch.