Runner allowed to advance to 3rd??

[Guest KMM]

Couple questions that have come up and I've received two different answers on these.

1) Runner on first, pitcher throws to batter and ball deflects off plate then catcher and goes over backstop.  Where should the runner be placed on the wild pitch out of play?

2) Runner on 2nd.  Batted ball to third, runner still around 2nd base.  Third over throws first and goes into dugout.  Where should the runners be placed?  In this scenario, what happened was the runner on 2nd was moved to 3rd, and the batter was awarded to 2nd base.  Is this correct?

[sthomas13100]

1. R1 is awarded 2nd base.  1 from TOP

2. R2 is awarded home, and BR is awarded 2nd.  2 TOP (Time of Pitch)

[Guest KMM]

50 minutes ago, sthomas13100 said:

1. R1 is awarded 2nd base.  1 from TOP

2. R2 is awarded home, and BR is awarded 2nd.  2 TOP (Time of Pitch)

Would #1 outcome be different if the runner was stealing 2nd base?

On #2, the umpire only awarded 2nd base to the batter and 3rd base to R2.  I believe he stated something like first throw from fielder.  We were on defense so I was happy that the runner wasn't awarded home. 

[Biscuit]

3 minutes ago, Guest KMM said:

Would #1 outcome be different if the runner was stealing 2nd base?

On #2, the umpire only awarded 2nd base to the batter and 3rd base to R2.  I believe he stated something like first throw from fielder.  We were on defense so I was happy that the runner wasn't awarded home. 

Only if he had touched second before time of pitch, which is first motion by the pitcher, so almost certainly no.

The rule he's thinking of is that, if its the first throw from the infield that goes out of play, it is an award from time of pitch. Subsequent throws from the infield, and all throws from the outfield, are awarded time of throw. Either way, R2 should be awarded home.

[Larry in TN]

A pitched ball out of play is always a one-base award from the time of pitch.

A ball thrown (not pitched) out of play is always a two-base award.  The only question is whether it is applied from time of pitch or time of throw (TOP vs. TOT).

In your scenarios, the runners positions at TOT and TOP were the same so it doesn't matter.  

 

[noumpere]

21 minutes ago, Guest KMM said:

Would #1 outcome be different if the runner was stealing 2nd base?

On #2, the umpire only awarded 2nd base to the batter and 3rd base to R2.  I believe he stated something like first throw from fielder.  We were on defense so I was happy that the runner wasn't awarded home. 

#2 -- My guess is that the runner was retreating toward second at TOT and the umpire fell for the "the base he's going to plus one" myth.  "#2" is appropriate for this.

[CSCS]

On 5/16/2019 at 1:44 PM, Biscuit said:

Only if he had touched second before time of pitch, which is first motion by the pitcher, so almost certainly no.

The rule he's thinking of is that, if its the first throw from the infield that goes out of play, it is an award from time of pitch. Subsequent throws from the infield, and all throws from the outfield, are awarded time of throw. Either way, R2 should be awarded home.

Is this NFHS?  That is all throws from the outfield are awarded time of throw.  If so, can you reference the rule as I am really trying to wrap my brain around these base awards.  

[Jimurray]

53 minutes ago, CSCS said:

Is this NFHS?  That is all throws from the outfield are awarded time of throw.  If so, can you reference the rule as I am really trying to wrap my brain around these base awards.  

3-5

 

[Biscuit]

55 minutes ago, CSCS said:

Is this NFHS?  That is all throws from the outfield are awarded time of throw.  If so, can you reference the rule as I am really trying to wrap my brain around these base awards.  

@Jimurray gave the citation for FED, but I'm pretty sure this is all codes. 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Jimurray gave an incomplete citation for the high school rule—the rule where it actually says what the OP is looking for is 8-3-5 in the very last sentence of subparagraph (b).

2018 NFHS rule 8-3 ART. 5 . . . An award is from the base determined as follows:

b….If every runner, including the batter-runner, has advanced one base at the time of the first play, the award is two bases from the time of the throw. For any subsequent play by an infielder or for any throw by an outfielder, the award is two bases from the time of the throw.