Live-ball Appeal Scenario

[Ty]

Rules: NFHS

Game: High school varsity playoffs, 3-man mechanics

Situation:

• R1 and R2, no outs

Play: 

• Batter hits fly ball to right-center field, caught by center fielder (1st out). Both R1 and R2 attempt to tag up.
  • R1 and R2 reach 2nd and 3rd respectively, but R2 leaves early by a full step.
• While the ball was still live, the pitcher moves from the mound area and tags 2nd base, asking U3 if the runner left early.
  • U3 signals R2 out (2nd out) on the live-ball appeal and verbalizes "He's out, the runner left second early." 
• A few seconds later, R1 then vacates second base thinking he is the runner called out, and is tagged between 2nd and 3rd by the SS.
  • U3 signals R1 out (3rd out) on the tag
  • Crew gets together (to check if PU, U1, or U3 called time prior to the 3rd out) and uphold call on field.

 

Is this called correctly? 

[noumpere]

Sounds right to me.

Especially if the umpire was emphatic (pointing, saying the number, etc) that R2 was out and not R1.

[yawetag]

Definitely called correctly.

[Richvee]

U3’s mechanics are important here. The out call, pointing at r2( now on 3b) , verbal “he’s out left 2B early” all are important to make sure everyone knows it’s the lead runner who is out. If R1? Now on 2B) then walks off the bag, there’s no disputes he’s out for stepping off the bag. 

[maven]

49 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Especially if the umpire was emphatic (pointing, saying the number, etc) that R2 was out and not R1.

The call is clearly correct, and mechanically this is the key.

As U3, I'd take several steps toward 3B (where R2 is), point to him, and say "HE's out!" If he does this and R1 still wanders off for out #3, that's going to be entirely on R1.

If U3 is standing near 2B (where the appeal occurred) and makes his call, he's partly (but only partly) responsible for R1's confusion.

[beerguy55]

I'll give the perspective of a coach/player.

If Ump says, as described, "Runner left second early" then R1 is 100% to blame.

If ump is looking at second, with the appeal at second, and he just says "out", then R1 is about 95% to blame -  I'm "hoping" for relief if R1 gets confused and thinks he's the one who's out....but only "hoping"...because, at the same time, I'm expecting him to say one or all of a set of questions... "Who's out?  me? why am I out?  how am I out?  I'm on the bag...He didn't touch me.  I didn't leave early"...in other words, I'm expecting my player to know that this can't possibly be an appeal on him, and to know the rules enough that even if he did leave first early, this was an appeal on the other runner.

[Aging_Arbiter]

I guess there's a reason this is called Umpire Empire...............and not coaches corner........

[Lou B]

If the pitcher stepped on second base why would R1 think he was out?

Punish stupidity! ( kidding, sort of)

[grayhawk]

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago with R1 & R2.  The catcher back picked R2 who got into a rundown.  During the rundown, R1 advanced to second while R2 was chased back to second base. Both runners were on second base and both were tagged.  I pointed directly at R1 (the following runner) and called him out.  Simultaneous to this happening, R2 anticipated that he was the one who was going to be out and left the bag towards the 3B dugout.  Well, you know the rest...

[beerguy55]

On 5/15/2019 at 11:41 AM, Aging_Arbiter said:

I guess there's a reason this is called Umpire Empire...............and not coaches corner........

Well, if you're think I'm wrong in blaming my players and holding them accountable...I can start blaming umpires if you want.   I know it's hard to imagine when a coach is on your side.

[Aging_Arbiter]

Not saying that at all........I just enforce the rules and don't worry about what coaches do, think or "hope for" unless it violates the playing rules.

[beerguy55]

15 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Not saying that at all........I just enforce the rules and don't worry about what coaches do, think or "hope for" unless it violates the playing rules.

Oh well, I try to be nice.  Just trying to say that this coach has your back.

[Aging_Arbiter]

Much appreciated.  However, you & @Rich Ives are probably the only 2 that are the exception to the rule that I have discussed things with.  I have several HS coaches that I would bet money on, have NEVER cracked a rule book.

[Haroldm814]

20 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Much appreciated.  However, you & @Rich Ives are probably the only 2 that are the exception to the rule that I have discussed things with.  I have several HS coaches that I would bet money on, have NEVER cracked a rule book.

You only have several coaches?  I'm going to say the overwhelmingly majority of mine haven't.