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humanbackstop19

1st to 3rd move test question

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Test question:  

With runners on first and third, it is legal for the pitcher to step directly to third with his non-pivot foot and then pivot and throw to first base.

Does this mean the pitcher is NOT disengaging the rubber and throwing directly from the rubber to first after stepping towards third?  That is the way I interpret this.  This would be a balk, correct?  If the pivot foot disengages the rubber on the step towards third, it is then safe to throw to first.

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Just now, humanbackstop19 said:

 

Test question:  

With runners on first and third, it is legal for the pitcher to step directly to third with his non-pivot foot and then pivot and throw to first base.

Does this mean the pitcher is NOT disengaging the rubber and throwing directly from the rubber to first after stepping towards third?  That is the way I interpret this.  This would be a balk, correct?  If the pivot foot disengages the rubber on the step towards third, it is then safe to throw to first.

Assuming that they want you to assume, by using the word "pivot," that  the pivot foot remained in contact, in FED  that pitcher can still throw to 1B. It is not a balk. What would be a balk is if that pitcher feinted to 1B. 

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This question seems to be pretty much right out of the case book (emphasis added; this is old, so the specific reference might be different):

 

6.2.4 SITUATION C: With R1 on third and R2 on first, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he
removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third.
He follows with a throw to first base. RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when
feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while
he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and
throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher's plate
. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first
disengage the pitcher's plate or he is guilty of a balk.

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20 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

Wow, this is horribly worded question.

Most of the NFHS tests are terribly worded. :smachhead:

 

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1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

Most of the NFHS tests are terribly worded. :smachhead:

It's not just the wording, which I agree is often terrible, mainly because it's unclear what the prompt is asking.

Beyond that, some are just conceptually incoherent to the point of unintelligibility, as if made by a poorly programmed AI. A glance by a trained umpire should reveal these.

And I know for a fact that NFHS has access to folks with advanced degrees and a background in writing (I'm looking at you, Steve).

The only plausible explanation is that the wrong people to be writing tests get the "privilege" of doing it and treat it as some kind of perq, instead of outsourcing it to folks with some experience in the area.

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I've always thought NFHS should send a draft of the questions each year to a small set of officials across the country. These officials have signed up for the process for their particular sport and know their participation is mandatory (maybe even a small stipend for doing it). Have them take the test with the books for that year but no other help.

When the tests come back, look for the ones that are missed the most. Send those back to the group and ask why it was missed. I'm going to guess that if a wide swath of experienced officials are missing a question, it's not because they don't know the rule. Rewrite the question or throw it out completely.

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12 hours ago, yawetag said:

I've always thought NFHS should send a draft of the questions each year to a small set of officials across the country.

Didnt the NCAA start doing this a few years ago? I remember that the tests used to be as bad as the FED one. But it has gotten much better over the last handful of years.

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On 4/24/2019 at 10:41 AM, Jimurray said:

Assuming that they want you to assume, by using the word "pivot," that  the pivot foot remained in contact, in FED  that pitcher can still throw to 1B. It is not a balk. What would be a balk is if that pitcher feinted to 1B. 

When I umpired in LA many, MANY moons ago. There was a lefty for a school called Harvard-Westlake (yes, it is as posh as it sounds) that would do a standard lefty move to first. But he would ALWAYS keep the toe of his pivot foot in contact with the pitching rubber.

It looked as odd and as uncomfortable as you would think. Wanted to call something. But was never able to come up with a justification to call something beyond "it just looked really weird."

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19 hours ago, yawetag said:

I've always thought NFHS should send a draft of the questions each year to a small set of officials across the country. These officials have signed up for the process for their particular sport and know their participation is mandatory (maybe even a small stipend for doing it). Have them take the test with the books for that year but no other help.

When the tests come back, look for the ones that are missed the most. Send those back to the group and ask why it was missed. I'm going to guess that if a wide swath of experienced officials are missing a question, it's not because they don't know the rule. Rewrite the question or throw it out completely.

I was asked to "assist" in writing a refresher test for another sport here in NJ. After reviewing the initial draft of said test and offering my comments  electronically, I was advised that my comments were duly noted. Of the 70+ questions that had been provided to me, more than 40 were sufficiently confusing, obfuscated, contradictory, or wrong for me to comment upon. As an example, there is a question that is nearly identical to a casebook play where the "correct" answer on the draft directly contradicts the casebook. 

The chair of the "committee" sent the test to seven individuals. At no time did any of them share their comments, suggestions, or insights on any of the questions with anyone else on the committee. At no time did the group meet in person, have a distance meeting, or talk in a group chat. I converted the Word document I received to a Google doc and shared my thoughts on every question with everyone on the committee. I received no correspondence and the document has had no comments added to it since I sent it out. 

The chair of the committee, or as he might prefer -The God of (fill in the sport), deemed that his will alone is appropriate and sufficient to determine the fitness of the questions and answers, including the question I cited above. When I received feedback on my concerns, I was advised that I was incorrect. I responded that I would like to be present when an official fails the test because of this particular question and how it would be explained that the answer contradicts the casebook. There was no response. 

I wonder if I will be asked again to participate in this charade of a committee. If I am, perhaps I will make some suggestions about being a committee of seven equals rather than a rubber stamp.

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Funny, but I got an email today stating:

 

"You have been invited to take part in the NFHS rules-writing process by taking the annual baseball rules questionnaire. This questionnaire is provided so the opinions of a national sampling of registered umpires and coaches will be considered by the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee."

 

It was about 20 questions ranging from did I favor rule changes from last year and did I favor new changes for next year.  Interesting.

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1 hour ago, catsbackr said:

Funny, but I got an email today stating:

 

"You have been invited to take part in the NFHS rules-writing process by taking the annual baseball rules questionnaire. This questionnaire is provided so the opinions of a national sampling of registered umpires and coaches will be considered by the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee."

 

It was about 20 questions ranging from did I favor rule changes from last year and did I favor new changes for next year.  Interesting.

That's sent out to many umpires every year -- has nothing to do with the tests.  I am curious how much weight the responses are given in the rules committee meetings -- maybe whoever here is on the committee can give us some feedback on that.

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4 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

@BT_Blue umpired in LA many, MANY moons ago. Is that...

a) Louisiana

b) Los Angeles

c) Lower Alabama

Wouldn't you like to know! :insertevillaughhere:

B

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4 hours ago, catsbackr said:

Funny, but I got an email today stating:

 

"You have been invited to take part in the NFHS rules-writing process by taking the annual baseball rules questionnaire. This questionnaire is provided so the opinions of a national sampling of registered umpires and coaches will be considered by the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee."

 

It was about 20 questions ranging from did I favor rule changes from last year and did I favor new changes for next year.  Interesting.

Every official in our state gets that.

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12 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

Every official in our state gets that.

Apparently, "national sampling" is "Kansas".

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As a first year HS umpire in WA, I got that questionnaire. (?)  Disappointed that they didn't ask me what I thought about the dead ball balk.

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1 minute ago, ousafe said:

As a first year HS umpire in WA, I got that questionnaire. (?)  Disappointed that they didn't ask me what I thought about the dead ball balk.

That's cause they dont care. Lol

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37 minutes ago, ousafe said:

As a first year HS umpire in WA, I got that questionnaire. (?)  Disappointed that they didn't ask me what I thought about the dead ball balk.

They ask about that every 2 or 3 years. Either our opinions don't matter or enough umpires don't have the same opinion.

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1 hour ago, yawetag said:

Apparently, "national sampling" is "Kansas".

We are pretty average.

;)

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40 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Not to my way of looking.

And they say umpires can't see.

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Well I guess if every umpire in an entire state gets a questionnaire, it's not really a sampling of the country, but rather primarily a reflection of that state only.

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