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Guest Ernie

Equipment left out

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Guest Ernie

Catcher leaves equipment outside the dugout and a over thrown ball goes into his equipment.  What is the call?

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2 hours ago, Guest Ernie said:

Catcher leaves equipment outside the dugout and a over thrown ball goes into his equipment.  What is the call?

That's interference!

Immediate dead ball.

CORRECTED POST:  See Jim's response below for accurate rule reference. Thanks Jim!

 

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31 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

A little bit of preventive umpiring would go a long way here.  Keep the equipment in the dugout.

Yes, because OBR and NCAA keep the ball live. You don’t want to deal with “what if”. 

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1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

That's interference!

Immediate dead ball.

From NFHS Bases Awarded Table:

image.png.f4c30419f175575a56b532225cb0a133.png

In this situation, it would be the top (33) one.  Runner being played on is out.  Everyone else returns to base occupied at time of infraction.

I think you referenced a FED softball rule. For baseball it would be the god rule:

"1-3-ART. 7 . . . Loose equipment, such as gloves, bats, helmets or catcher's gear, of either team may not be on or near the field.

PENALTY: If loose equipment interferes with play, the umpire may call an out(s), award bases or return runners, based on his judgment and the circumstances concerning the play."

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1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

I think you referenced a FED softball rule. For baseball it would be the god rule:

"1-3-ART. 7 . . . Loose equipment, such as gloves, bats, helmets or catcher's gear, of either team may not be on or near the field.

PENALTY: If loose equipment interferes with play, the umpire may call an out(s), award bases or return runners, based on his judgment and the circumstances concerning the play."

And -- give the benefit of the doubt to the team that didn't eff it up.

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Mr. Jimurray, the 2016 BRD (section 317, p. 212) says there is no penalty listed for loose equipment interference. But it does show the following AO from Jim Evans—

Authoritative Opinion: Evans:  Umpires should monitor the area in front of the dugouts and insure that gloves and equipment are not left lying on the playing field. Equipment lying on the lip of the dugout is legal, but a thrown ball that strikes it is considered in the dugout, hence dead.

And the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 191) seems to agree:

“There is no interference (assuming no intent) if a live ball strikes or touches equipment on live ball territory (LBT). Also, there is no interference if a fielder is unable to make a play due to contact with an inadvertently placed piece of equipment on LBT. However, if a ball strikes a piece of equipment that is on LBT (usually the lip or top step of a dugout), and such ball would have entered DBT absent the contact with such equipment, then the ball is considered to have entered DBT. [MLB Rule Interpretation 27 Note] [NFHS 1-3-7] [NCAA 1-16-d]”

Could you please check that reference to MLB Interp. 27 Note. I believe you told us that citation refers to the MLBUM.

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2018 MLB rule

3.10 Equipment on the Field

(a) Members of the offensive team shall carry all gloves and other equipment off the field and to the dugout while their team is at bat. No equipment shall be left lying on the field, either in fair or foul territory.

2017-18 NCAA rule 1-16d.

All loose equipment (e.g., bats, gloves, chairs, etc.) must be kept in the dugout or in a clearly marked dead-ball area. If a pitched, batted or thrown ball touches equipment that is in live-ball territory, the ball remains live.

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The real world example I saw was the ODB was the catcher, with pads on (two out)...ball four in the dirt, ODB bends over to undo pads.   Doesn't see the ball ricochet off F2...as the pads drop to the ground the ball rolls into them.

F2 runs to retrieve ball to ensure batter, nor R1 (now at second), do not further advance.

It was nothing...pads did stop the ball but didn't impact the play...ump called nothing.  R1/R2 play on.

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38 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. Jimurray, the 2016 BRD (section 317, p. 212) says there is no penalty listed for loose equipment interference. But it does show the following AO from Jim Evans—

Authoritative Opinion: Evans:  Umpires should monitor the area in front of the dugouts and insure that gloves and equipment are not left lying on the playing field. Equipment lying on the lip of the dugout is legal, but a thrown ball that strikes it is considered in the dugout, hence dead.

And the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 191) seems to agree:

“There is no interference (assuming no intent) if a live ball strikes or touches equipment on live ball territory (LBT). Also, there is no interference if a fielder is unable to make a play due to contact with an inadvertently placed piece of equipment on LBT. However, if a ball strikes a piece of equipment that is on LBT (usually the lip or top step of a dugout), and such ball would have entered DBT absent the contact with such equipment, then the ball is considered to have entered DBT. [MLB Rule Interpretation 27 Note] [NFHS 1-3-7] [NCAA 1-16-d]”

Could you please check that reference to MLB Interp. 27 Note. I believe you told us that citation refers to the MLBUM.

I didn't cite anything for the ball being live in OBR or NCAA for a ball hitting loose equipment outside the dugout as in the OP. But the MLBUM Interp "27. Fielder going into out of play area" does add a note unrelated to the fielder that while the lip is live a ball striking equipment on the lip (top step) is dead. That is not the OP of course but it is good to know.

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Mr. Jimurray, thanks for providing that information from the MLBUM. The OP did not specify a rule set so I thought it should be clarified that the FED ruling is different from that of OBR/NCAA.

Mr. beerguy55, here is the official interpretation concerning equipment in the on-deck circle--as found in the 2016 BRD (section 321, p. 213)—

Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  Equipment used by the on-deck batters is on the field legally and cannot create interference.

Play 180-321:  The batter pops up. The ball is coming down close to the on-deck circle. As the catcher goes to field the ball, he runs into a bat leaning against the backstop. The ball drops in front of the catcher. Ruling:  The umpire should signal that it’s nothing. This is simply a foul ball. (Adapted from the WRIM)

However, there is a question whether catcher’s equipment can be legally on the field. The Wendelstedt manual states the following, “When a catcher is the next batter due up, he may not wear any catching equipment while in the on-deck circle.” I grant you that admonition is not really feasible or even wise for youth play. But if we were to adhere to it we would have to see that when the catcher doffs his equipment to approach the plate that he not just drop the paraphernalia in the circle but toss it to the dugout.

 

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3 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

However, there is a question whether catcher’s equipment can be legally on the field. The Wendelstedt manual states the following, “When a catcher is the next batter due up, he may not wear any catching equipment while in the on-deck circle.” I grant you that admonition is not really feasible or even wise for youth play. But if we were to adhere to it we would have to see that when the catcher doffs his equipment to approach the plate that he not just drop the paraphernalia in the circle but toss it to the dugout

Where the reality is the ODB drops them, and the next ODB retrieves them and puts them in the dugout (almost) immediately....in any respect, in my experience, umpires typically don't let the pitcher pitch until they have been removed from the circle.

Agreed on the practicality of the instruction, where I hope there is a differentiation between OBR pro and OBR am, at least in one's mind, and that no umpires take that instruction literally at the amateur level.   It's really a pace of play thing, especially in time limit games.

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