Jump to content

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member
BT_Blue

All American v. Champion

Recommended Posts

I'm being offered a used All American for the cost of a new Champion P2xx.

My questions are:

1) is this a good deal?

2) what makes the AA better than the Champion if it is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member

 I switched from a champion to an all american. The foam is more memory foam so it molds to your body better and to me i felt like it had more protection.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. If I can work it out to get it for a good price I think I will do it. But I'm not sure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, kylejt said:

I'm a fan of removable, washable pads. 

They both have that option.

Basically, I've been trying to find out why people are saying the AA is better. And for the most part. The only answer I have gotten is because "it is."

Is it worth getting it and spending the extra money to get it refurbished?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a bit of "cool factor" with the AA, because they don't make them anymore. 

Here's a little secret: The Holy Grail of Cool chest protectors really isn't any better than either of those two, yet some will  pay 10 times that. So in the end, fit, price, protection, and "cool" are all factors that only you can measure. 

 

Oh, and don't forget resale value. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, kylejt said:

There's a bit of "cool factor" with the AA, because they don't make them anymore. 

Here's a little secret: The Holy Grail of Cool chest protectors really isn't any better than either of those two, yet some will  pay 10 times that. So in the end, fit, price, protection, and "cool" are all factors that only you can measure. 

 

Oh, and don't forget resale value. 

All VERY good points! And not all of us are awesome enough to have a Team Wendy Riddell. Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put this on the other post, but makes sense here too:

AA is MUCH better padding.  It's slightly thicker and way more comfortable.   It's not Wilson Gold thick, but it's close to Platinum padding but somehow more comfortable. I like how one described it as memory foam - good comparison!

The bad news is the padding has a thin "cover" for lack of a better word, that starts to break down and peel.  The good news is only looks bad and won't affect performance at all. 

The big difference with these 2 CP's is the AA has thicker plastic and will last better/wear longer than a Champion.  The Champion's are known to crack under a fastball or foul ball, the AA will take it and keep going. 

The AA you're looking at has had the neck pad cut off and will need sewn back up or it'll continue to deteriorate.  The pic below is for comparison with neck pad intact.  Plus, cosmetic only, but the AA sticker looks dulled at the top.  Perhaps you can have a replacement sticker made or just take it off entirely and leave it all black? 

Go get it Arik!  Where are you going to find another one? Plus, the guy selling it is a good guy, I've dealt with him some.

FYI - Jay Johnson has a 15" V-Sport with very good condition black padding.  I think they can interchange, maybe buy both and swap the pads?  The only thing is the V-Sport logo is on the padding at the neck, but maybe you can remove it gently.  His V-Sport looks like new and is $90+ shipping on FaceBook

AA 13inch 1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are pics of the V-Sport I mentioned above.  Perhaps, someone with more knowledge can speak more to it, but I'm told these are all very close to the same CP's (V-Sport, AA, +POS had one like this, Champion, etc.) and only the Champion is still in production now.   The Champion imports their plastic though so it is thinner and more susceptible to cracking under hard impact.

 

IMG_0200.JPG

IMG_0203.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like my Champion. I don't know what the price difference would be but I'd pay 10-20 more for thicker, more durable plastic and I think it would be the best CP on the market (fit, comfort, etc.). I've been wearing a Douglas recently and it "feels" more protective to me. I took a foul ball Saturday with no problem that I would have felt with the Champion. Having said that, nothing fits me better than my Champion...It sounds like the AA might be worth having if you can get as good a deal as you are talking about. Best of both worlds?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True to its name, the All-American was manufactured in the U-S-of-A. Thus, the ABS plastic is denser and the hardware more robust. Nowadays, anything plastic is made over in China / Indonesia, and they skimp on material quality in the efforts of making each unit as lightweight as possible so as to fit more into a container. As such, the Champion carapace plates are more brittle.

All-American was a big rival to Riddell, Schutt, Douglas, Wilson and Rawlings in the heady, pre-CAD/CAM days of football equipment. While Wilson and Douglas employed sofa-cushion foam in their shoulder pads, All-American was one of the first to start experimenting with laminate foam. Laminate foams, especially in shoulder pads (for football) meant that the pads could be thinner, lighter, and perform more effectively on wicking moisture.

Worth mentioning is that, at the time, the Riddell Power, the All-American, and the Wilson WV Gold were "mutual replicas" of each other. I do not know who arrived at the design first, but the Gold is a progressive step of evolution from the original WestVest design, which itself came from the Douglas (and Douglas still maintains to this day). All we know is that Wilson secured the patent, and as such, Riddell and All-American were issued C&D writs. Point is, these CPs were not being run in mass quantities to begin with, and there was alot more care and quality put into their production than what came later thru China. And in China is where the Champion P2xx's origins lie, since it has been optimized to be produced, en masse, to cover the broadest range of sizes at the lowest possible price point.

As @wolfe_man noted, you'll need to get any seams or stitching repaired. You (and we, collaboratively) could possibly come up with a new billow that could be stitched in so that your neck isn't potentially rubbing against the plastic edges of the carapace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not overly worried about neck rub. The Gold doesnt have a neck billow. And I wore one of those for almost my who umpire career.

I wonder if bringing I to a shoe cobbler (of which I know a very good one locally) could put something like a piece of leather over that and it would work? From the looks of it. That seems to be the only open area?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@BT_Blue,

 

The first AA I got was a 13-inch model gifted to me from a Double A umpire.  I later purchased a 15-inch model from a member on this site.  I have owned a Champion too, along with just about every other CP made.

 

If I were you, I'd go with the AA.  The padding is great, it's low profile and the plastic is much thicker.  Plus, it cool as hell to own something that is no longer made!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I have made a deal to purchase the AA. Need confirmation and will have to get the ok from the seller to wait for a week or two so I can free up money spent on my UA purchase.

I'm pretty excited.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BT_Blue said:

I'm not overly worried about neck rub. The Gold doesnt have a neck billow. And I wore one of those for almost my who umpire career.

I wonder if bringing I to a shoe cobbler (of which I know a very good one locally) could put something like a piece of leather over that and it would work? From the looks of it. That seems to be the only open area?

Or you could just borrow a Platinum pillow? Eh, @MadMax?:fuel:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought you were getting a Schutt? 

I've got a V-sport and they actually put some thought into the foam, different sections have different densities. The foam that isn't under the plastic is pretty dense, while the foam behind the plastic is a medium density. The material that covers the foam actually helps as well, because it isn't as porous, the air escapes slower so the pocket acts as a buffer as well. The foam under the shoulders is pretty light, but it doesn't need to be too thick as there is a layer of protection under most of that. The plastic is definitely not brittle. I've taken some pretty good shots and have barely felt anything. The sound of the ball hitting it, is usually the worst part. 

Now, the things that make this effective, also make it hot. With options like the Schutt, I wouldn't wear the V-Sport for multiple summer games. I'm not a big guy but after 1 summer game with the V-Sport, I need to change and wring out the dri-fit T-shirt that I wear under it. I wore my new Schutt for a Double Header and stayed nice and cool. The plastic on the V-Sport is definitely more pliable than the Schutt, but I feel safe in both. I did add a AS Delta-Flex to the V-Sport and it fits so much nicer. Had to swap out some buckles, but the sewing was minor. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have the Schutt and like it. But the opportunity was to good to pass on and I want a second CP. That, and the Schutt ready has a modified ASDF harness. And I want something nifty to put my new UL harness on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Champion model with removable padding. I haven't seen the AA in person, but the Champion plates are a little thin compared to my main CP Douglas. Love the Champion in the heat of the summer. I'm tempted to sell off the Champion and p/u the new Adams/Schutt for backup and the summer heat. Curious if the shoulders are wider than the Douglas or Champion which fit me perfectly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just bought an A-A. The padding was in rough shape so I put the better A-A plastic on the champion padding. Will report results after Feb. 24th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... I'm happy to say that the seller and I have made an agreement for me to purchase his AA.

Now to move on to the last thing I need for this season... BASE SHOES!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×