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NFHS Catcher Blocking Plate


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Question

This was a play discussed at the state meeting:

Runner on 2nd, base hit, R2 attempts to score.  The throw comes in from the outfield for play at the plate.  The catcher was in legal fielding position prior to the throw (not blocking the plate).  The throw took the catcher up the 3rd base line and now the runner and catcher collide without the catcher having possession of the ball, basically a train wreck.  The runner from 2nd falls down and the hustling pitcher was backing up the play picked up the ball and tagged R2 out before he reached the plate.  Under NFHS rules should this be called obstruction since the catcher did not have possession of the ball?

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1 hour ago, Guest Coach said:

This was a play discussed at the state meeting:

Runner on 2nd, base hit, R2 attempts to score.  The throw comes in from the outfield for play at the plate.  The catcher was in legal fielding position prior to the throw (not blocking the plate).  The throw took the catcher up the 3rd base line and now the runner and catcher collide without the catcher having possession of the ball, basically a train wreck.  The runner from 2nd falls down and the hustling pitcher was backing up the play picked up the ball and tagged R2 out before he reached the plate.  Under NFHS rules should this be called obstruction since the catcher did not have possession of the ball?

Yes, if the catcher denied access to home plate prior to securely possessing the ball.

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2018 NFHS Case Book Play 2.22.1 Situation C:  A runner is advancing to score when F7 throws home. F2 completely blocks home plate with his lower leg/knee while (a) in possession of the ball or (b) while juggling and attempting to secure the ball or (c) before the ball has reached F2. RULING:  Legal in (a); obstruction in (b) and (c) if the catcher denied access to home plate prior to possessing the ball.

2018 NFHS Case Book Play 8.3.2 Situation C:  F2 is in the path between third base and home plate while waiting to receive a thrown ball. R3 advances from third and runs into the catcher, after which R3 is tagged out. RULING:  Obstruction. F2 cannot be in the base path without the ball in his possession, nor can he be in the base path waiting for a ball to arrive without giving the runner some access to home plate.

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19 hours ago, jonathantullos said:

I saw the case book quote above my post but not until after I posted. If that's the way FED wants it called, fine... But I also don't agree with it.

The runner scores easily if there's no contact, yes? Who is at fault for the contact in this case? The catcher. He's in the way due to a bad and/or late throw. You can't penalize the runner by letting him be out due to the catcher wrongly impeding his path. Why should the defense be rewarded there? Just calling this a baseball play, as I've heard in the field, is wrong. How you explain that to a coach, I have no idea.

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On 1/16/2019 at 12:08 PM, Senor Azul said:

A runner is advancing to score when F7 throws home. F2 completely blocks home plate with his lower leg/knee while (a) in possession of the ball or (b) while juggling and attempting to secure the ball or (c) before the ball has reached F2. RULING:  Legal in (a); obstruction in (b) and (c) if the catcher denied access to home plate prior to possessing the ball

Is it ever the case that the catcher gets called for obstruction for simply blocking the plate even if the runner still, say, 15 ft away?

 

If the catcher is blocking the plate how close does the runner have to be for that call to be in effect.

 

I always thought obstruction would occur once the runner change the direction or slow down...

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Is it ever the case that the catcher gets called for obstruction for simply blocking the plate even if the runner still, say, 15 ft away?
 
If the catcher is blocking the plate how close does the runner have to be for that call to be in effect.
 
I always thought obstruction would occur once the runner change the direction or slow down...
I like to think I will know it when I see it. Also, every umpire will have a different answer here. I think the distance to where the runner will make their decision is roughly 25-30 feet out. A third of the way down the line.

As we know, there isnt a defined or notible line in the sand, however, there is the dirt cutout with a 26 foot diameter. So roughly, when the runner is 13 feet out, they are at the cutout. If F2 is blocking, we can take another 2 or 3 away from that.

If my math is right, that would be roughly 10 feet from collision, 13 feet from scoring. Measure 13 feet on your floor and see if you think a runner can change their path, running full speed, in that distance. I dont think they can and would be further out when they do. YMMV.

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38 minutes ago, Toggy said:

Is it ever the case that the catcher gets called for obstruction for simply blocking the plate even if the runner still, say, 15 ft away?

Sure. 15 feet for a running varsity player is what, 2 or 3 steps? He'll have to go around an obstructing F2, which should be called.

38 minutes ago, Toggy said:

If the catcher is blocking the plate how close does the runner have to be for that call to be in effect.

Well, it's "in effect" at all times, but blocking the plate is a violation and OBS should be called when the runner is close enough to be choosing his path to the base.

Note that the runner does NOT have to change his path to draw an OBS call. It's a violation for F2 to be there (at a certain time), not for F2 to force a runner to deviate. After all, the runner may always slide legally right into an obstructing F2, so he might not deviate at all. OBS should still be called.

38 minutes ago, Toggy said:

I always thought obstruction would occur once the runner change the direction or slow down...

Correct. F2 blocking the plate when R2 is rounding 3B is not violating. 2 seconds later as R2 is approaching HP, he is. So F2 has about 2 seconds to "provide access" to HP. This need not be the runner's preferred access—if R2 takes a wide turn at 3B and is well into foul ground, F2 may clear the plate by stepping back and providing access right down the foul line. He'd be in R2's way, but not committing OBS.

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9 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I like to think I will know it when I see it.

Newer umpires find this response frustrating. They're learning the rule, which references blocking access, and are looking for guidance about how to judge it. To be told, "I know how to judge it" neither answers the question nor provides any guidance.

9 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I think the distance to where the runner will make their decision is roughly 25-30 feet out. A third of the way down the line.

That's much more helpful, and in line with my post. I teach it differently, because we don't really want umpires trying to measure how far from the plate a runner is when there's a lot more to attend to. Thank you!

9 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Also, every umpire will have a different answer here.

I suspect that's always true—about every topic—but visitors learn pretty quickly how to rank us. ;) 

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Newer umpires find this response frustrating. They're learning the rule, which references blocking access, and are looking for guidance about how to judge it. To be told, "I know how to judge it" neither answers the question nor provides any guidance..  


I agree with most of this. I consider myself a newer umpire in relation to most veterans here. And it was frustrating until I learned that until I see it and correlated to what I have studied, then it would be clear. So yeah, I think that understanding or given guidance that it may be fuzzy to them until they see it, could lesson the frustration.

And how boring this site would be if everyone had the same opinion on everything discussed here....

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3 hours ago, Toggy said:

Is it ever the case that the catcher gets called for obstruction for simply blocking the plate even if the runner still, say, 15 ft away?

 

If the catcher is blocking the plate how close does the runner have to be for that call to be in effect.

 

I always thought obstruction would occur once the runner change the direction or slow down...

I would say even at FIFTY feet away F2 could be obstructing...if he doesn't have the ball he shouldn't be in the base path.  Once the runner has completed rounding the base and is on a path to the plate, if F2 is between him and the plate, he's obstructing...even at this moment now the runner has to make decisions about altering his path, or going under the catcher, or whatever.

On a tag up play, the moment the runner leaves third base F2 better not be in the path.

That may be extreme, but I can tell you from experience - if I'm 80 feet from home plate, and I know I'm trying to score, if F2 is between me and the plate I'm already thinking about what I have to do with my path to the plate, including deciding if I'm going right or left to get around him...I may make slight adjustments at 80 feet, 50 feet, 20 feet, but I will make them as early as I think I need to....all because F2 is where he shouldn't be.

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