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BlueRanger

You Get An EJ! And You Get An EJ!...

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Total circus at this middle-school pop-up tournament I was working at a few weeks ago. All games played under OBR.

EJ 1 & 2 [Game 1]

2 really good 8th grade (13/14u) teams. Partner is rocking it on the bases, and has nailed a few really close calls. Bottom 5th, 1 out, R1, R3, righty pitcher does 3rd-to-1st, partner balks it, visitors go ape crazy, VAC runs out from dugout and onto the infield to yell, I dump him, warn VHC, VHC goes out to talk, keeps it calm, walks back to dugout without incident. 

Next play: 1 out, R2, shot over F3, R2 rounds for home, slips trying to hold up, bang-bang as tag is applied as he dives back, partner calls him out, kid gets up, starts yelling and then slams helmet into the infield in direction of partner, dumped immediately.

Don't worry! It gets better!

EJ 3,4 [Game 3]

New teams, same age group. Partner is PU, I am BU.

In between innings, HHC and VAC get into it about a hard slide into second, both benches warned. Next inning, 0 outs, nobody on, 0-2 count, partner calls strike three, batter says something, gets tossed, I go to escort him off the field and VHC starts losing his mind and screaming "You're F-ing crazy! Get off the power trip, etc." he gets run. Game concludes and Visitor parents start yelling at us as we head to TD table to turn in the game cards.

Rest of the day was peaceful and freezing!

-BR

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When they gotta go, they gotta go.  The only question I have is when VAC came out of the dugout to argue the balk call, did you have any opportunity to get him back in before dumping him?

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Wow... That's crazy.

If VAC come out to argue a balk, is it an auto EJ, or do you say something along the lines of "I'll only talk to your head coach, get back in the dugout" first? Or maybe just a stop sign into EJ?

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19 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

Wow... That's crazy.

If VAC come out to argue a balk, is it an auto EJ, or do you say something along the lines of "I'll only talk to your head coach, get back in the dugout" first? Or maybe just a stop sign into EJ?

For me, it depends on how aggressively he comes out.  If I have a chance to give a stop sign and he takes it, then he can stay.  If he's running out and gets past the foul line and I can't stop him, then he's written his own ticket to the parking lot.

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1 minute ago, grayhawk said:

For me, it depends on how aggressively he comes out.  If I have a chance to give a stop sign and he takes it, then he can stay.  If he's running out and gets past the foul line and I can't stop him, then he's written his own ticket to the parking lot.

Does this apply equally to anytime a AC comes out, or especially so with calls like balks where there's rarely a reason for a coach to discuss anything?

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3 hours ago, grayhawk said:

When they gotta go, they gotta go.  The only question I have is when VAC came out of the dugout to argue the balk call, did you have any opportunity to get him back in before dumping him?

I mean, I'm somewhat fast, but this dude just sprinted/charged at my partner, so I wasn't even going to bother at that point.

-BR

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2 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

Does this apply equally to anytime a AC comes out, or especially so with calls like balks where there's rarely a reason for a coach to discuss anything?

Anytime for me. I straight up tell the HCs and the plate meeting if its lower level stuff that I will only talk with them, which usually works out fine. 

My advice would be to just say you'll only discuss it with the HC, and if the AC was/is still out of control or not listening, dump him.

-BR

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55 minutes ago, BlueRanger said:

Anytime for me. I straight up tell the HCs and the plate meeting if its lower level stuff that I will only talk with them, which usually works out fine. 

My advice would be to just say you'll only discuss it with the HC, and if the AC was/is still out of control or not listening, dump him.

-BR

That's the key - never do this at HS level or above.

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1 hour ago, BlueRanger said:

I mean, I'm somewhat fast, but this dude just sprinted/charged at my partner, so I wasn't even going to bother at that point.

-BR

Yup - he left you no choice.  Though I would rather your partner be the one to eject here.  After all, VAC was sprinting at him, not you.

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6 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

That's the key - never do this at HS level or above.

Yeah, I would never say that during any sort of HS, high level youth tourney, etc. game. Most of the tournaments I do have coaches that often played college and minor or indy league, so I aim for a 45sec plate meeting. Been getting rave reviews! :P

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3 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Yup - he left you no choice.  Though I would rather your partner be the one to eject here.  After all, VAC was sprinting at him, not you.

No argument here. Can't help but think that a game I had in the days before where I left a few over the line things alone, assuming my partner would get them, played a role.

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23 hours ago, BlueRanger said:

Anytime for me. I straight up tell the HCs and the plate meeting if its lower level stuff that I will only talk with them, which usually works out fine. 

My advice would be to just say you'll only discuss it with the HC, and if the AC was/is still out of control or not listening, dump him.

-BR

Yeah, in the daddy ball stuff I'm calling, I'll bring it up in the plate meeting, but I'm not gonna dump someone simply for wanting to talk. Charging or whatever is obviously a different story, but if a coach, even if their not HC, wants to talk in a respectful manner, I'm not gonna dump 'em on the spot.

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17 hours ago, Biscuit said:

Yeah, in the daddy ball stuff I'm calling, I'll bring it up in the plate meeting, but I'm not gonna dump someone simply for wanting to talk. Charging or whatever is obviously a different story, but if a coach, even if their not HC, wants to talk in a respectful manner, I'm not gonna dump 'em on the spot.

Daddy ball is the worst. The only time I'll talk with an AC is I'm in A and he is coaching first. As long as it's respectful and he stays in the box I'll answer a questions or respond quickly. And I'm talking so casual a conversation nobody in the ballpark knows it's even going on but me and him. Anything argumentative, animated, or outside of the coach's box and he gets an immediate stop sign. Travel ball dads are the worst as the ones that know the least get put out at first, where they are in front of everyone and way too close to me to be arguing incessantly. 

Had a fall travel game a month or so ago and the FBC didn't like a close call at first. It was awkward looking but my PU had the same thing I had and even the HC from the dugout knew I had it. FBC chirped a bit and I let it go so I did the same. Next inning a banger at first and once again I nailed it (according to my partner). At this point the FBC swings around at me and holds up two fingers and yelled "That's two you've blown on us, blue" and stomped around clearly showing me up. HS or up I would have dumped him but I didn't. In retrospect I probably should have. At the time it didn't seem worth stirring up the parents when nobody on the bench or in the stands understands coaching decorum anyway. Around here travel ball is just not worth doing for me because of the coach/dad attitudes.

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On 11/29/2018 at 12:04 PM, mwest5575 said:

1. At the time it didn't seem worth stirring up the parents when nobody on the bench or in the stands understands coaching decorum anyway. 

2. Around here travel ball is just not worth doing for me because of the coach/dad attitudes.

If they are allowed to hang around when they act like you describe, they will never understand coaching decorum.

Either this is not true or the story you have related is not. 

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1. I had to make a decision in that moment of how to handle the situation. I managed to shut him down without causing a big scene that inflamed the rest of the coaches and parents. If he had continued I would have ejected him. As I said in a high school or other game where we work together as an association and the coaches are around long enough to develop and follow "rules of engagement" then it's obviously different. It's one of the reasons that makes travel ball less enjoyable to me. You are dealing with coaches/assistants/(dads) who don't care about that kind of stuff, aren't trying to advance career-wise, aren't interested in developing working relationships with umpires they will be working with for a while, face little to no repercussions from being ejected, and frankly would rather cause a scene and get thrown out anyway. I understand the "if you don't they'll never learn" thinking and I felt guilty about it. I guess from a practical standpoint I didn't think the mess was worth it given this guy was most likely not going to learn or change his behavior. I reserve the right to be wrong here.

2. You are correct. I should have said "becoming not worth it" as I have never done much and am finding myself doing less and less. It's a different animal for sure. IMO you have to have a different mentality for travel ball than school ball. I'd be curious to hear other's opinions.

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3 hours ago, mwest5575 said:

IMO you have to have a different mentality for travel ball than school ball. I'd be curious to hear other's opinions.

I agree with you there. But I go the opposite direction is handling big boy baseball (HS, College, spring ball, etc) vs kid ball (and I include Babe Ruth, Travel Ball, summer tournaments, etc). I am much harder on the summer ball guys than I am on the spring ones for the exact reason you listed. Spring ball, they know what their limits are. Summer, they think that they can do anything they want. 

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23 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

I agree with you there. But I go the opposite direction is handling big boy baseball (HS, College, spring ball, etc) vs kid ball (and I include Babe Ruth, Travel Ball, summer tournaments, etc). I am much harder on the summer ball guys than I am on the spring ones for the exact reason you listed. Spring ball, they know what their limits are. Summer, they think that they can do anything they want. 

Amen.   Babe Ruth has gotten completely out of hand locally.  Where did the good coaches go? All that seems left is people who want to bully or yell at the kids/umpires/opposing team, etc.

I'm almost to where I'm only doing HS ball now - as I don't have the patience to put up with daddy-ball coaching for $40 a game.  Although, Legion and Travel ball last year was much better than normal.

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On 12/19/2018 at 7:25 AM, wolfe_man said:

Amen.   Babe Ruth has gotten completely out of hand locally.  Where did the good coaches go? All that seems left is people who want to bully or yell at the kids/umpires/opposing team, etc.

I'm almost to where I'm only doing HS ball now - as I don't have the patience to put up with daddy-ball coaching for $40 a game.  Although, Legion and Travel ball last year was much better than normal.

Nearly right there with you, brother.....HS, a few of the bigger summer tournaments (15U and up only) and that's pretty much it anymore. Avoiding the unholy trinity of 10U-12U like the plague!

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On 11/27/2018 at 6:34 PM, Biscuit said:

Does this apply equally to anytime a AC comes out, or especially so with calls like balks where there's rarely a reason for a coach to discuss anything?

FWIW, in FED if an assistant comes out to argue, it's supposed to be an automatic EJ. At the plate meeting I let the HCs know that I will not be talking to their assistants per FED rules. Never had an issue.

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7 minutes ago, jonathantullos said:

FWIW, in FED if an assistant comes out to argue, it's supposed to be an automatic EJ. At the plate meeting I let the HCs know that I will not be talking to their assistants per FED rules. Never had an issue.

FWIW, that shouldn't be something you would say at a plate meeting.

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1 minute ago, Jimurray said:

FWIW, that shouldn't be something you would say at a plate meeting.

We can agree to disagree on that. I had a run-in with an assistant my first year and thus I make sure to make this clear from the very beginning. If you don't like it, don't do it.

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1 hour ago, jonathantullos said:

We can agree to disagree on that. I had a run-in with an assistant my first year and thus I make sure to make this clear from the very beginning. If you don't like it, don't do it.

You weren’t here when this was posted. It’s good advice: 

 

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2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

You weren’t here when this was posted. It’s good advice: 

 

I appreciate your concern. I should have noted that I have since moved and such a warning may no longer be necessary. What I was dealing with before in another state... Well, I won't get in to that. But, again, thank you. Have a good evening.

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1 hour ago, jonathantullos said:

I appreciate your concern. I should have noted that I have since moved and such a warning may no longer be necessary. What I was dealing with before in another state... Well, I won't get in to that. But, again, thank you. Have a good evening.

Ok, your welcome 

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